Kansas Crimson

I feel.

NPOY ( Naismith, Wooden, NABC )
1st team AA
NDPOY ( Naismith, NABC )
2nd team AA
Big 12 POY
Big 12 DPOY
Big 12 All Defense
NCAA MOP
1st team All Big 12
NCAA Champion

Not sure NCAA Champion should e on the list. Because Brad Witherspoon has one and Wilt doesn't.

1st Team All Big 12 feels like a participation award for this program.

I get why people are saying NCAA Champion shouldn't be on the list - but other people are rating it higher than 10 so it definitely is important to some when judging an individual player.

Probably the same people who would think a 34-3 season is a bad season because of a Sweet 16 loss.

You use championships as an argument when the metrics say players are similar. You don’t bake the championships into the metrics

I was torn between putting it over 1st team All Big 12.
I do think, when I think of players, I put champions in a slightly higher regard.
If i'm thinking just seasons, if KU doesn't win the title in 08, do I consider Ben McLemore over Brandon Rush?
If i'm thinking careers, if KU hadn't won the title in 08, would I even consider Darrell Arthur over Perry Ellis?

Cascadia wrote: ↑Mon May 03, 2021 8:35 am You use championships as an argument when the metrics say players are similar. You don’t bake the championships into the metrics

Some obviously disagree.
But NCAA Champ loosing ground.

Cascadia wrote: ↑Sat May 01, 2021 8:52 am
1st Team All Big 12 feels like a participation award for this program.

Also weird that 1st team All B12 seems like a participation award but B12 all defense does not.

NPOY 1.1
1st team AA 2.5
B12 POY 4.5
2nd team AA 4.5
MOP 5
NDPOY 5.1
1st Team All B12 7.4
B12 DPOY 7.9
NCAA champ 7.9
B12 All D 9.1

pdub wrote: ↑Mon May 03, 2021 8:44 am

Cascadia wrote: ↑Sat May 01, 2021 8:52 am
1st Team All Big 12 feels like a participation award for this program.

Also weird that 1st team All B12 seems like a participation award but B12 all defense does not.

Oh, it does to some degree as well, hence the low ranking

I'm leaving this vote open for a couple more weeks - do your ranking if you want to have a say.

Some early award scores:

Danny Manning 1.00
Clyde Lovellette .720
Raef LaFrentz .542
Frank Mason .458

I was watching Top 10 victory videos of the Self era and it is surprising how athletic the Vicks, Tyshawns, EJs, and DJs are on some of the highlights. Kills the awards matrix. Man have we been spoiled.

Your votes will significantly change these top rankings but using just the scoring system for total stats, average stats and awards, here's a sneak peak of the top 50 Jayhawks of all time:

1. Danny Manning
2. Clyde Lovellette
3. Wilt Chamberlain
4. Nick Collison
5. Raef LaFrentz
6. Drew Gooden
7. Dave Robisch
8. Frank Mason
9. Wayne Simien
10. Darnell Valentine

And to certainly anger a few posters ( and hopefully spur them to vote in a couple weeks ) here's the bottom half:

41. Jeff Withey
42. Tyshawn Taylor
43. Jerod Haase
44. Scot Pollard
45. Eric Chenowith
46. Kenny Gregory
47. Cedric Hunter
48. Jeff Boschee
49. Russell Robinson
50. Greg Ostertag

It is interesting that this is mostly a team award really, in that individual awards seem to be gauged on how well the team did. That leaves the Kelloggs and Stallworths to the side. Jojo White was probably the best Jayhawk post-Wilt too prior to Danny

I'll show how the ranks were calculated once the page goes live but it's a combo of awards and individual stats...not really how well the team did.

( Wilt's career crimscore in this is 1.16, which is certainly too low, because it takes the average of these top 50 players stats per game where there weren't any stats recorded -- and unfortunately there were no blocks per game measured for Wilt, and he likely averaged, what, maybe 7 blocks per game? - all this said, 1.16 career is easily the highest career crimscore, as Danny scored an .844 and Clyde a .867 ).

Shooting for September 1st launch - voting for a month:

Was late.
Your awards scores/weighted algorithm is in play.
You have over a month to get yer vote in:

https://www.kansascrimson.com/kcrim25/