Israel/Palestine

[NewtonHawk11]

I will say this, could you imagine if Israel didn't have the ID? It would be an all out war and not just targeted strikes to what Israel seems to be housing places for Hamas. Many more deaths would be occurring on both sides and it would inevitably suck the US directly into it and we would have to send some sort of troops there to help.

[Mjl]

One curiosity I’ve had is, how much strategic benefit can there really be to blowing up hospitals and news offices and residential civilian buildings, even if the bad guys are supposed to be hiding in there?

If they’re giving warning before they blow it up, do they really think Hamas is just gonna stay sitting around in there, waiting to be exploded? Especially if weighing against any sense of collateral damage, which they aren’t

What do you want Israel to do? Have their citizens live in bomb shelters their whole lives?

[Mjl]

I will say this, could you imagine if Israel didn't have the ID? It would be an all out war and not just targeted strikes to what Israel seems to be housing places for Hamas. Many more deaths would be occurring on both sides and it would inevitably suck the US directly into it and we would have to send some sort of troops there to help.

Exactly. But zsn doesn't like this because it helps the military industrial complex, lives be damned.

[ousdahl]

One curiosity I’ve had is, how much strategic benefit can there really be to blowing up hospitals and news offices and residential civilian buildings, even if the bad guys are supposed to be hiding in there?

If they’re giving warning before they blow it up, do they really think Hamas is just gonna stay sitting around in there, waiting to be exploded? Especially if weighing against any sense of collateral damage, which they aren’t

What do you want Israel to do? Have their citizens live in bomb shelters their whole lives?

Far from it, dude.

What do you want Israel to do? Keep going apartheid on mosques and dropping bombs on kids?

[Mjl]

One curiosity I’ve had is, how much strategic benefit can there really be to blowing up hospitals and news offices and residential civilian buildings, even if the bad guys are supposed to be hiding in there?

If they’re giving warning before they blow it up, do they really think Hamas is just gonna stay sitting around in there, waiting to be exploded? Especially if weighing against any sense of collateral damage, which they aren’t

What do you want Israel to do? Have their citizens live in bomb shelters their whole lives?

Far from it, dude.

What do you want Israel to do? Keep going apartheid on mosques and dropping bombs on kids?

Cutting speakers at the mosque may have been a bad idea, I would be interested in both perspectives on that. It in now way justifies sending thousands of rockets into Israel. I don't want Hamas or Israel dropping bombs or rockets on kids. Given that Hamas is launching those rockets from buildings with kids, and given Israel notifying before bombing, I don't know what better alternative they have

[ousdahl]

[Deleted User 89]

given that Israel makes millions, if not billions off of selling their own weapons, i have no issue with this, particularly if it’s true what i’ve been hearing about Israeli settlers being bussed around to start shit with Arab Israelis

[Mjl]

given that Israel makes millions, if not billions off of selling their own weapons, i have no issue with this, particularly if it’s true what i’ve been hearing about Israeli settlers being bussed around to start shit with Arab Israelis

This is the part that has been unique here vs previous conflicts - the role some individual Israelis are taking in exacerbating the conflict rather than letting their Government handle it.

I think everything in this world is getting affected in awful ways by Twitter circles and YouTube and Facebook algorithms. It's all related. It fuels extremism and misinformation, which inevitably leads to people taking things in to their own hands based on bad info.

Somewhat ironic in this case is that Israelis wrote the book on the brain's problems that are feeding this.

[ousdahl]

Well, isn’t their gummint sort of a big part of the problem too?

Their gummint is pulling some radical militant shit. It’s not like it’s random vigilantes pepper spraying mosques. And I wonder what proportion of bombs dropped by Israel is by the gummint vs rogue individuals

[TDub]

Read the other day but didnt fact check... this was days ago.... but. 232 dead palestinians, 18 dead Israelis.

Now, we do the same thing in conflicts, so I'm not judging anything other than how the media is spinning it

[Deleted User 89]

there will never be sustained peace as long as 1) Hamas (or the like) is in power, and 2) Israel quits with the land grabs

[ousdahl]

Yeah, I too have seen lots of reports about how Israel has been much more aggressive, dropped far more bombs, and racked up a much higher body count.

They’re the colonial oppressors and Palestine is the oppressed and displaced (at least since the 40s or whatever.) Israel has the support of the US gummint and way more resources - an actual military vs. Palestine’s ragtag forces.

Yeah Hamas gets the terrorist label, but why doesn’t Israel?

The current conflict started apparently when Israeli forces cut speaker cords broadcasting prayers on the first day of Ramadan.*

But depending on who reports it, the narrative is, Israel has to defend themselves so why shouldn’t they, or whatever, as if Israel is the ones about to be wiped off the map otherwise


*just for a second imagine if a bunch of Muslims busted in and interrupted Easter service at like the Vatican. Or some like Texas mega church

[Mjl]

Read the other day but didnt fact check... this was days ago.... but. 232 dead palestinians, 18 dead Israelis.

Now, we do the same thing in conflicts, so I'm not judging anything other than how the media is spinning it

Because Israel cares about defending it's people so it spends shitloads on things like the iron dome while Hamas uses it's people as human shields.

[Mjl]

Plus how many of those dead Palestinians are from Hamas rockets?

[Mjl]

Well, isn’t their gummint sort of a big part of the problem too?

Their gummint is pulling some radical militant shit. It’s not like it’s random vigilantes pepper spraying mosques. And I wonder what proportion of bombs dropped by Israel is by the gummint vs rogue individuals

Go live in a fucking bunker with sirens going off all around you constantly and tell me that you don't want your government defending you.

[Deleted User 89]

ousie, your crusade to defend Hamas is odd

[Mjl]

Yeah, I too have seen lots of reports about how Israel has been much more aggressive, dropped far more bombs, and racked up a much higher body count.

They’re the colonial oppressors and Palestine is the oppressed and displaced (at least since the 40s or whatever.) Israel has the support of the US gummint and way more resources - an actual military vs. Palestine’s ragtag forces.

Yeah Hamas gets the terrorist label, but why doesn’t Israel?

The current conflict started apparently when Israeli forces cut speaker cords broadcasting prayers on the first day of Ramadan.*

But depending on who reports it, the narrative is, Israel has to defend themselves so why shouldn’t they, or whatever, as if Israel is the ones about to be wiped off the map otherwise


*just for a second imagine if a bunch of Muslims busted in and interrupted Easter service at like the Vatican. Or some like Texas mega church

More aggressive? What does that mean? Do you understand what terrorism is? If Hamas stopped firing rockets this would be over. If that was sustained over time there could be a two state solution.

When you don't even understand how Trumpily misleading that bullshit map you posted is, why are you even fucking commenting? Look at the map after 67, after 73, or early 90s. Gaza and the West Bank were part of Israel when we were kids, but of course you don't know that, you'd rather just follow along with simplistic tweets because you're basically a Trumper.

Israel gave that land back despite getting it because of being attacked. All the Palestinians had to do was not attack Israel and accept Israel's right to exist, and they couldn't even do that. Instead they elected terrorists to be in charge of that land.

Learn about how we got here, or shut the fuck up.

[Mjl]

there will never be sustained peace as long as 1) Hamas (or the like) is in power, and 2) Israel quits with the land grabs

Yep

[ousdahl]

Whoa, did you just admit that Israel’s land grabs were part of the problem too?!?!?!

Cuz so far, you’ve mostly just condoned Israel’s actions while condemning Palestine’s.

[ousdahl]

Well, isn’t their gummint sort of a big part of the problem too?

Their gummint is pulling some radical militant shit. It’s not like it’s random vigilantes pepper spraying mosques. And I wonder what proportion of bombs dropped by Israel is by the gummint vs rogue individuals

Go live in a fucking bunker with sirens going off all around you constantly and tell me that you don't want your government defending you.

Is this supposed to apply to Israelis, or to Palestinians?