The republican War On Women

Ugh.
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jfish26
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Re: The republican War On Women

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Sparko wrote: Tue Apr 09, 2024 5:51 pm What is sad is that the 14th Amendment is younger and got less judicial support
However bad you might have thought the history behind this decision,* it's worse.

April 9, 2024

https://heathercoxrichardson.substack.c ... ril-9-2024
Yesterday, former president Trump released a video celebrating state control over abortion; today, a judicial decision in Arizona illuminated just what such state control means. With the federal recognition of the constitutional right to abortion gone since the Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade, old laws left on state books once again are becoming the law of the land.

In a 4–2 decision, the all-Republican Arizona Supreme Court today said it would not interfere with the authority of the state legislature to write abortion policy, letting the state revert to an 1864 law that bans abortion unless the mother’s life is in danger. “[P]hysicians are now on notice that all abortions, except those necessary to save a woman’s life, are illegal,” the decision read.

The court explained: “A policy matter of this gravity must ultimately be resolved by our citizens through the legislature or the initiative process…. We defer, as we are constitutionally obligated to do, to the legislature’s judgment, which is accountable to, and thus reflects, the mutable will of our citizens.”

The idea that abortion law must be controlled by state legislatures is in keeping with the 2022 Dobbs v. Jackson Women’s Health Organization decision that overturned Roe v. Wade. But it’s an interesting spin to say that the new policy is protecting the will of the citizens.

The Arizona law that will begin to be enforced in 14 days was written by a single man in 1864.

In 1864, Arizona was not a state, women and minorities could not vote, and doctors were still sewing up wounds with horsehair and storing their unwashed medical instruments in velvet-lined cases.

And, of course, the United States was in the midst of the Civil War.

In fact, the 1864 law soon to be in force again in Arizona to control women’s reproductive rights in the twenty-first century does not appear particularly concerned with women handling their own reproductive care in the nineteenth—it actually seems to ignore that practice entirely. The laws for Arizona Territory, chaotic and still at war in 1864, appear to reflect the need to rein in a lawless population of men.


The 1864 Arizona criminal code talks about “miscarriage” in the context of other male misbehavior. It focuses at great length on dueling, for example—making illegal not only the act of dueling (punishable by three years in jail) but also having anything to do with a duel. And then, in the section that became the law now resurrected in Arizona, the law takes on the issue of poisoning.

In that context, the context of punishing those who secretly administer poison to kill someone, it says that anyone who uses poison or instruments “with the intention to procure the miscarriage of any woman then being with child” would face two to five years in jail, “Provided, that no physician shall be affected by the last clause of this section, who in the discharge of his professional duties deems it necessary to produce the miscarriage of any woman in order to save her life.”

The next section warns against cutting out tongues or eyes, slitting noses or lips, or “rendering…useless” someone’s arm or leg.

The law that Arizona will use to outlaw abortion care seemed designed to keep men in the chaos of the Civil War from inflicting damage on others—including pregnant women—rather than to police women’s reproductive care, which women largely handled on their own or through the help of doctors who used drugs and instruments to remove what they called dangerous blockages of women’s natural cycles in the four to five months before fetal movement became obvious.

Written to police the behavior of men, the code tells a larger story about power and control.

The Arizona Territorial Legislature in 1864 had 18 men in the lower House of Representatives and 9 men in the upper house, the Council, for a total of 27 men. They met on September 26, 1864, in Prescott. The session ended about six weeks later, on November 10.

The very first thing the legislators did was to authorize the governor to appoint a commissioner to prepare a code of laws for the territory. But William T. Howell, a judge who had arrived in the territory the previous December, had already written one, which the legislature promptly accepted as a blueprint.

Although they did discuss his laws, the members later thanked Judge Howell for “preparing his excellent and able Code of Laws” and, as a mark of their appreciation, provided that the laws would officially be called “The Howell Code.” (They also paid him a handsome $2,500, which was equivalent to at least three years’ salary for a workingman in that era.) Judge Howell wrote the territory’s criminal code essentially single-handedly.

The second thing the legislature did was to give a member of the House of Representatives a divorce from his wife.

Then they established a county road near Prescott.

Then they gave a local army surgeon a divorce from his wife.

In a total of 40 laws, the legislature incorporated a number of road companies, railway companies, ferry companies, and mining companies. They appropriated money for schools and incorporated the Arizona Historical Society.

These 27 men constructed a body of laws to bring order to the territory and to jump-start development. But their vision for the territory was a very particular one.

The legislature provided that “[n]o black or mulatto, or Indian, Mongolian, or Asiatic, shall be permitted to [testify in court] against any white person,” thus making it impossible for them to protect their property, their families, or themselves from their white neighbors. It declared that “all marriages between a white person and a [Black person], shall…be absolutely void.”

And it defined the age of consent for sexual intercourse to be just ten years old (even if a younger child had “consented”).

So, in 1864, a legislature of 27 white men created a body of laws that discriminated against Black people and people of color and considered girls as young as ten able to consent to sex, and they adopted a body of criminal laws written by one single man.

And in 2024, one of those laws is back in force in Arizona.


Now, though, women can vote.

Before the midterm elections, 61% of Arizona voters told AP VoteCast they believed abortion should be legal in most or all cases, while only 6% said it should be illegal in all cases. A campaign underway to place a constitutional amendment protecting abortion rights on November’s ballot needs to gather 383,923 verified signatures by July; a week ago the campaign announced it already had 500,000 signatures.

It seems likely that voters will turn out in November to elect lawmakers who will represent the actual will of the people in the twenty-first century.
* Edit to revise/add: the decision itself is technically correct. And the language in the decision can fairly be read as the court saying DON'T BLAME US GUYS WE'RE JUST CALLING BALLS AND STRIKES, WE DIDN'T MAKE THE STRIKE ZONE.
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pdub
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Re: The republican War On Women

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So Arizona is gonna vote out these people and the new people will reverse this legislation.
I think close to 80% of people in Zona believe in the right to choose.
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Re: The republican War On Women

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pdub wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2024 10:16 am So Arizona is gonna vote out these people and the new people will reverse this legislation.
I think close to 80% of people in Zona believe in the right to choose.
Exactly. I think "Dobbsian" will replace "Pyrrhic" in our modern lexicon.
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KUTradition
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Re: The republican War On Women

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lol

now trump says az went too far

wtf did you expect, you pos?
Have we fallen into a mesmerized state that makes us accept as inevitable that which is inferior or detrimental, as though having lost the will or the vision to demand that which is good?
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Re: The republican War On Women

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KUTradition wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2024 11:49 am lol

now trump says az went too far

wtf did you expect, you pos?
Gotta zoom out to see the two-step here. This leads to an argument that actually states go too far and what we need is “unifying legislation” (being an X-week federal ban).

This will be presented as a moderate approach (when it is no such thing).
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Re: The republican War On Women

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jfish26 wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2024 11:55 am
KUTradition wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2024 11:49 am lol

now trump says az went too far

wtf did you expect, you pos?
Gotta zoom out to see the two-step here. This leads to an argument that actually states go too far and what we need is “unifying legislation” (being an X-week federal ban).

This will be presented as a moderate approach (when it is no such thing).
you seem to be insinuating that this was all planned

i don’t think they’re that smart
Have we fallen into a mesmerized state that makes us accept as inevitable that which is inferior or detrimental, as though having lost the will or the vision to demand that which is good?
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Re: The republican War On Women

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KUTradition wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2024 2:21 pm
jfish26 wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2024 11:55 am
KUTradition wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2024 11:49 am lol

now trump says az went too far

wtf did you expect, you pos?
Gotta zoom out to see the two-step here. This leads to an argument that actually states go too far and what we need is “unifying legislation” (being an X-week federal ban).

This will be presented as a moderate approach (when it is no such thing).
you seem to be insinuating that this was all planned

i don’t think they’re that smart
I think there is a sizable, calculating and well-organized portion of the right that has all privacy-type cases in its crosshairs. They got Roe, and I'd have to imagine it won't be long before they come for Obergefell and even Griswold. However, all of those attacks are/will be deeply unpopular, so it's somewhat schizophrenic, reactionary pivoting from one untenable position to another.

In other words, I think what we're seeing here is the inevitable bubbling-up of the break within the right. The right needs these crazies - their money and their engagement and their platforms and their reach - to have a shot at the polls. But the price these crazies exact is dear, from an electoral standpoint.
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KUTradition
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Re: The republican War On Women

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jfish26 wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2024 2:39 pm
KUTradition wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2024 2:21 pm
jfish26 wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2024 11:55 am

Gotta zoom out to see the two-step here. This leads to an argument that actually states go too far and what we need is “unifying legislation” (being an X-week federal ban).

This will be presented as a moderate approach (when it is no such thing).
you seem to be insinuating that this was all planned

i don’t think they’re that smart
I think there is a sizable, calculating and well-organized portion of the right that has all privacy-type cases in its crosshairs. They got Roe, and I'd have to imagine it won't be long before they come for Obergefell and even Griswold. However, all of those attacks are/will be deeply unpopular, so it's somewhat schizophrenic, reactionary pivoting from one untenable position to another.

In other words, I think what we're seeing here is the inevitable bubbling-up of the break within the right. The right needs these crazies - their money and their engagement and their platforms and their reach - to have a shot at the polls. But the price these crazies exact is dear, from an electoral standpoint.
i don’t disagree

i just see dobbs as an instance of the dog who caught the car…the actual, real-world implications of them getting what they want weren’t fully considered
Have we fallen into a mesmerized state that makes us accept as inevitable that which is inferior or detrimental, as though having lost the will or the vision to demand that which is good?
jfish26
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Re: The republican War On Women

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KUTradition wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2024 2:59 pm
jfish26 wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2024 2:39 pm
KUTradition wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2024 2:21 pm
you seem to be insinuating that this was all planned

i don’t think they’re that smart
I think there is a sizable, calculating and well-organized portion of the right that has all privacy-type cases in its crosshairs. They got Roe, and I'd have to imagine it won't be long before they come for Obergefell and even Griswold. However, all of those attacks are/will be deeply unpopular, so it's somewhat schizophrenic, reactionary pivoting from one untenable position to another.

In other words, I think what we're seeing here is the inevitable bubbling-up of the break within the right. The right needs these crazies - their money and their engagement and their platforms and their reach - to have a shot at the polls. But the price these crazies exact is dear, from an electoral standpoint.
i don’t disagree

i just see dobbs as an instance of the dog who caught the car…the actual, real-world implications of them getting what they want weren’t fully considered
Oh absolutely. The only quibble I'd have with that is the asymmetry of dealing with single-issue zealots. Fanatics, really.

The fundamental error the Rs made as a party is that they did not adequately account for this faction of the party not caring at all about how the party would fare after the car was caught.

Like, put it in sports betting terms. If you bet on Kansas to win, and your buddy (who is NOT a KU fan) bet on Jalon Daniels to score two touchdowns, then your interests are aligned...to a point.

But once JD gets his touchdowns, your buddy couldn't care less what happens in the rest of the game.
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Re: The republican War On Women

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But Mich told me there is only two sides. Ever.
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Re: The republican War On Women

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Thanks, "pro-life", republicans:

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"Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect."

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Re: The republican War On Women

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Shirley wrote: Fri Apr 19, 2024 7:42 am Thanks, "pro-life", republicans:

Image
The right's positions are: (1) medical professionals should be at risk of imprisonment for providing health care to women, and also (2) some (but not all!) elected officials should have absolute immunity for anything they do while in office.

What a world.
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Re: The republican War On Women

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Louisiana moves to make abortion pills ‘controlled dangerous substances’

Someone possessing the pills without a valid prescription or outside of professional practice could be prosecuted and sentenced to prison.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2 ... substance/
The amendment would list mifepristone and misoprostol under the state’s Uniform Controlled Dangerous Substances Act, which regulates depressants, opioids and other sometimes highly addictive drugs. It elicited a strong reaction from more than 240 Louisiana doctors, who called it “not scientifically based.”

“Adding a safe, medically indicated drug for miscarriage management … creates the false perception that these are dangerous drugs that require additional regulation,” they wrote in a letter sent last week to the bill’s sponsor, Republican Sen. Thomas Pressly. They noted misoprostol’s other critical uses, including to prevent gastrointestinal ulcers and to aid in labor and delivery.

“Given its historically poor maternal health outcomes, Louisiana should prioritize safe and evidence-based care for pregnant women,” they urged.
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Re: The republican War On Women

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This shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone who has been paying attention.

Christo-Fascism isn't coming, it's here.

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Re: The republican War On Women

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If only there was an alternative to the banning of hormone-based contraceptives:

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"Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect."

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Re: The republican War On Women

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Shirley wrote: Mon May 13, 2024 4:47 pm If only there was an alternative to the banning of hormone-based contraceptives:

Image
Hmm, Mississippi happens (it appears anyway) to have the highest F:M ratio in the United States.

Maybe some enterprising distaff Mississippians should, instead of protesting the next "pro-life" bill that burbles its way up the state legislature, go on offense and call for the bill to codify that life begins when sperm leaves the male body.

I have a feeling that criminalization of wanking will solve this right away.
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Re: The republican War On Women

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jfish26 wrote: Mon May 13, 2024 4:57 pm
Shirley wrote: Mon May 13, 2024 4:47 pm If only there was an alternative to the banning of hormone-based contraceptives:

Image
Hmm, Mississippi happens (it appears anyway) to have the highest F:M ratio in the United States.

Maybe some enterprising distaff Mississippians should, instead of protesting the next "pro-life" bill that burbles its way up the state legislature, go on offense and call for the bill to codify that life begins when sperm leaves the male body.

I have a feeling that criminalization of wanking will solve this right away.
Every Sperm Is Sacred - Monty Python
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Re: The republican War On Women

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They are nuts. With nuts
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Re: The republican War On Women

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I'm old enough to remember when it was considered absurd that Christo-Fascists wanted to pretend that a fetus is a person.

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"Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect."

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Re: The republican War On Women

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Shirley wrote: Tue May 14, 2024 1:28 pm I'm old enough to remember when it was considered absurd that Christo-Fascists wanted to pretend that a fetus is a person.

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It’s sure a good thing for us, then, that the 14th Amendment doesn’t in fact seem to have any legal effect at the moment.
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