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Re: RNC

Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2024 7:52 am
by Overlander
JKLivin wrote: Sat Jul 20, 2024 6:43 am
Reasonably priced gas and groceries and safe streets will make you feel much better.
So, a President should force corporations to lower profits?

Can you honestly say that YOUR streets are measurably more dangerous than they were 3 years ago?

Re: RNC

Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2024 8:18 am
by jfish26
Overlander wrote: Sat Jul 20, 2024 7:52 am
JKLivin wrote: Sat Jul 20, 2024 6:43 am
Reasonably priced gas and groceries and safe streets will make you feel much better.
So, a President should force corporations to lower profits?

Can you honestly say that YOUR streets are measurably more dangerous than they were 3 years ago?
It is no longer important whether those MAGA boogeyman talking points are objectively true. Adherence is something of virtue-signaling.

July 19, 2024

https://heathercoxrichardson.substack.c ... ly-19-2024
[…]

Since Saturday’s shooting, it has been notable that there has not been a medical review of Trump’s injuries, although he has said he was injured by a bullet that ripped through his ear. This matters not only because of the extent of his injuries, but also because Trump has made the story part of his identity without any fact check, and the media appears simply to be letting it go on Trump’s say-so, something that adds to the sense that media outlets are treating Trump and Biden differently.

Last night, Trump perhaps tried to address this lack by recounting last Saturday’s shooting. Interestingly, he did not say he was hit by a bullet, but that when he felt the injury he thought, “it can only be a bullet.” Josh Marshall of Talking Points Memo today noted a report from local Pennsylvania television station WPXI that four motorcycle officers standing within feet of Trump suffered minor injuries from flying debris. Trump has likely cut off further discussion of the topic by saying it is too painful to tell the story again.

With that story behind him, Trump hit the theme of unity, saying he would bring the country together. “The discord and division in our society must be healed, we must heal it quickly. We are bound together by a single fate, a single destiny,” he said. “We rise together. Or we fall apart…. I am running to be president for all of America, not half of America, because there is no victory in winning for half of America. So tonight, with faith and devotion, I proudly accept your nomination for president of the United States.”

But that was just in the first ten minutes. Then Trump ignored the teleprompter and things veered far off course, reflecting the candidate that has stayed in the safe spaces of Mar-a-Lago and rallies of his loyalists for years. Trump rambled for more than 90 minutes, making it the longest acceptance speech in U.S. history and outlasting the interest of the audience, some of whom fell asleep.

He went on to recite his usual litany of lies: that Democrats cheated in the 2020 presidential election (they did not), that crime is going up (it’s plummeting), that inflation is the worst we’ve ever had (it’s around 3%; the worst was around 23%), that Democrats want to quadruple people’s taxes (CNN fact checker Daniel Dale calls this “imaginary”), and so on. Dale called it “a remarkably dishonest acceptance speech.”

Journalist James Fallows posted: “Of the maybe 10,000 political speeches I've heard over the years, this was overall the worst.” Statistician Nate Silver’s judgment was harsher, in a way: he began with “It’s a weird but a pretty good speech,” then posted “Semi-retract this tweet, this speech is boring AF, but there are worse things politically speaking than being boring.” Shortly after, came: “Fully RETRACT and RESCIND, sometimes it seems like both parties are trying to throw this election.”

MSNBC’s Chris Hayes watched the unhinged speech and concluded: "This is not a colossus, this is not the big bad wolf, this is not a vigorous and incredibly deft political communicator. This is an old man in decline who's been doing the same schtick for a very long time and it's really wearing thin."

The point, though, as Trump meandered through attacks on immigrants and a diatribe about the fictional character cannibal Hannibal Lecter—who he might think was real—as it always has been, was to present a picture of the U.S. under siege by enemies who are persecuting him because he represents true Americans and that he must be returned to office because only he can vanquish those enemies. Greg Sargent of The New Republic noted that Trump cannot offer a “unity” message because “Trump himself knows the MAGA masses will not be satiated without expansive displays of rage, cruelty and sadism directed at hated out groups and designated enemies of MAGA.”

For years, observers have noted that Trump’s approach to politics is patterned on the “kayfabe” at the heart of professional wrestling. Kayfabe is the performance aspect of professional wrestling, in which the actors play out relationships and scenes in which there are good and evil, love and hate, loyalty and betrayal. According to journalist Abraham Josephine Reisman, in old-school kayfabe the actors never let their masks slip, and while the audience knew what they were seeing must be fake, they played along with the illusion.

But in the 1990s, the barrier between reality and illusion blurred as wrestlers and promoters tried to increase the viability of the fading industry by tossing reality into the performances: real-life insults—the more outrageous the better—and real-life events. Decoding what was real and what was not drove engagement until in 1999, an estimated 18% of Americans, about 50 million people, called themselves fans. This “neokayfabe,” Reisman wrote in the New York Times in 2023, “rests on a slippery, ever-wobbling jumble of truths, half-truths, and outright falsehoods, all delivered with the utmost passion and commitment.”

Neokayfabe, Reisman wrote, “turns the world into a hall of mirrors from which it is nearly impossible to escape. It rots the mind and eats the soul.”

Trump participated in a storyline in this neokayfabe with World Wrestling Entertainment owner Vince McMahon in 2007, in part billed as a battle over hair. Eventually he was inducted into the WWE Hall of Fame, and many observers have made the link between neokayfabe and his approach to politics. Indeed, he even blended the two explicitly when he chose McMahon’s wife, Linda, to head the U.S. Small Business Administration during his presidency.

Neokayfabe and politics came together again last night at the Republican National Convention, as Linda McMahon, wrestler Hulk Hogan, and musician Kid Rock, whose music has been featured at wrestling events and who is also a member of the WWE Hall of Fame, all participated.

“So all you criminals, all you lowlifes, all you scumbags…. Whatcha gonna do when Donald Trump and all the Trumpamaniacs run wild on you, brother?!" Hogan yelled to wild applause after ripping off his shirt to show a Trump-Vance shirt. Like the other performers at the convention, he painted a portrait of Trump’s presidency, and of the United States since Trump left office, that was a fantasy of good and evil. Hogan reinforced that there was no way Trump was going to reach toward unity in Milwaukee. His approach to the world cannot be moderated. It depends on the idea that there are two teams in the performance and one must vanquish the other.

Part of that storyline requires rewriting not just the recent past, but our history. At the convention last night, Donald Trump Jr.’s fiancée, Kimberly Guilfoyle, said: “It is no wonder that the heroes who stormed the beaches of Normandy and faced down communism sadly say they don’t recognize our country anymore.” But the Allied soldiers in World War II were not fighting communism. They were fighting fascism. The three great Allied powers were Great Britain, the United States, and the communist Soviet Union.

It might be that Guilfoyle misspoke, or that she doesn’t know even the most basic facts of our history. Or it might be that by rewriting that history to put America on the side of the fascists, people like Guilfoyle hope to make that alliance more palatable to MAGA followers today.

Re: RNC

Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2024 8:33 am
by RainbowsandUnicorns
Overlander wrote: Sat Jul 20, 2024 7:52 am
JKLivin wrote: Sat Jul 20, 2024 6:43 am
Reasonably priced gas and groceries and safe streets will make you feel much better.
So, a President should force corporations to lower profits?

Can you honestly say that YOUR streets are measurably more dangerous than they were 3 years ago?
MY answer to your first question.....
My first thought was no but my second thought was what are the possible circumstances where I would answer yes - and surely some must exist.

MY answer to your second question.....
Since you used the word "YOUR" in capital letters, I am assuming you were directly addressing Psych and my guess is the correct and honest answer is no.
I am just one of 300+ million Americans but I can answer with a.... Probably yes. But I lay very little of that blame on the President and a lot more blame on my local politicians and legal system.

Re: RNC

Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2024 8:44 am
by ousdahl
JKLivin wrote: Fri Jul 19, 2024 9:58 pm “I am the Dread Pirate Roberts. There will be no survivors!”
In today’s political climate, that message would have killed it at a major party convention.

RIP Andre…not the candidate we wanted, but the candidate we needed.

ok and the candidate we wanted too!

Re: RNC

Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2024 9:09 am
by JKLivin
Overlander wrote: Sat Jul 20, 2024 7:52 am
JKLivin wrote: Sat Jul 20, 2024 6:43 am
Reasonably priced gas and groceries and safe streets will make you feel much better.
So, a President should force corporations to lower profits?

Can you honestly say that YOUR streets are measurably more dangerous than they were 3 years ago?
Economic policy influences prices.

I avoid going into Detroit or Lansing now because it is a shit show everywhere you turn. Ann Arbor is heading that direction.

Re: RNC

Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2024 9:25 am
by ousdahl
Oh yea, psych what part of MI you in again?

Wanna meet up for Phish in Grand Rapids in a couple weeks?!

Re: RNC

Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2024 10:49 am
by RainbowsandUnicorns
ousdahl wrote: Sat Jul 20, 2024 9:25 am Oh yea, psych what part of MI you in again?

Wanna meet up for Phish in Grand Rapids in a couple weeks?!
Something tells me Psych would rather have a root canal without being numbed than attend a Phish "show".
If it were to happen (you and Psych meeting up and going to a Phish "show") I would love to see a video of that.

Back to the RNC. I can't help but wonder if anyone who is not a brainwashed MAGA cultist can make any sense of what they witnessed if they watched the entire RNC.

Re: RNC

Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2024 10:59 am
by jfish26
RainbowsandUnicorns wrote: Sat Jul 20, 2024 10:49 am
ousdahl wrote: Sat Jul 20, 2024 9:25 am Oh yea, psych what part of MI you in again?

Wanna meet up for Phish in Grand Rapids in a couple weeks?!
Something tells me Psych would rather have a root canal without being numbed than attend a Phish "show".
If it were to happen (you and Psych meeting up and going to a Phish "show") I would love to see a video of that.

Back to the RNC. I can't help but wonder if anyone who is not a brainwashed MAGA cultist can make any sense of what they witnessed if they watched the entire RNC.
No, but nor are they meant to.

Which buttons up with my long quote-post from earlier this morning, and my quote-post yesterday about how all of this is about a near (?) majority of our country wanting things to take an authoritarian turn, not merely a cult of personality centered around one guy.

There is now a near (?) majority of our country that lives in a post-reality state, where adherence to the canon (and fluency in the language, history and traditions of the secular religion of the movement) is what matters.

Re: RNC

Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2024 11:51 am
by RainbowsandUnicorns
jfish26 wrote: Sat Jul 20, 2024 10:59 am
RainbowsandUnicorns wrote: Sat Jul 20, 2024 10:49 am
ousdahl wrote: Sat Jul 20, 2024 9:25 am Oh yea, psych what part of MI you in again?

Wanna meet up for Phish in Grand Rapids in a couple weeks?!
Something tells me Psych would rather have a root canal without being numbed than attend a Phish "show".
If it were to happen (you and Psych meeting up and going to a Phish "show") I would love to see a video of that.

Back to the RNC. I can't help but wonder if anyone who is not a brainwashed MAGA cultist can make any sense of what they witnessed if they watched the entire RNC.
No, but nor are they meant to.

Which buttons up with my long quote-post from earlier this morning, and my quote-post yesterday about how all of this is about a near (?) majority of our country wanting things to take an authoritarian turn, not merely a cult of personality centered around one guy.

There is now a near (?) majority of our country that lives in a post-reality state, where adherence to the canon (and fluency in the language, history and traditions of the secular religion of the movement) is what matters.
You communicate a lot more eloquently than I do.
I think you are definitely right.
My thoughts are, we live in society that seems to crave excitement. Needs excitement. Whatever that excitement may be. I feel people get a high from supporting Trump and they envision this utopian and as you said "authoritarian", future under Trump and his guidance but it's also a WE will rise up and conquer mentality.

Re: RNC

Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2024 12:13 pm
by JKLivin
ousdahl wrote: Sat Jul 20, 2024 9:25 am Oh yea, psych what part of MI you in again?

Wanna meet up for Phish in Grand Rapids in a couple weeks?!
I’m about 90 miles from GR. Not a Phish fan, but would meet up if you were in the area.

Re: RNC

Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2024 4:07 pm
by Overlander
JKLivin wrote: Sat Jul 20, 2024 9:09 am
Overlander wrote: Sat Jul 20, 2024 7:52 am
JKLivin wrote: Sat Jul 20, 2024 6:43 am

Reasonably priced gas and groceries and safe streets will make you feel much better.
So, a President should force corporations to lower profits?

Can you honestly say that YOUR streets are measurably more dangerous than they were 3 years ago?
Economic policy influences prices.

I avoid going into Detroit or Lansing now because it is a shit show everywhere you turn. Ann Arbor is heading that direction.
Absolutely NOT an answer for either of my questions.

For a genius, you seem kind of confused.

Re: RNC

Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2024 4:58 pm
by ousdahl
RainbowsandUnicorns wrote: Sat Jul 20, 2024 10:49 am
ousdahl wrote: Sat Jul 20, 2024 9:25 am Oh yea, psych what part of MI you in again?

Wanna meet up for Phish in Grand Rapids in a couple weeks?!
Something tells me Psych would rather have a root canal without being numbed than attend a Phish "show".
If it were to happen (you and Psych meeting up and going to a Phish "show") I would love to see a video of that.

Back to the RNC. I can't help but wonder if anyone who is not a brainwashed MAGA cultist can make any sense of what they witnessed if they watched the entire RNC.
Just wait till psych comes to phish and I get him dosed on shakedown street!

Re: RNC

Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2024 5:09 pm
by Shirley
ousdahl wrote: Sat Jul 20, 2024 4:58 pm
RainbowsandUnicorns wrote: Sat Jul 20, 2024 10:49 am
ousdahl wrote: Sat Jul 20, 2024 9:25 am Oh yea, psych what part of MI you in again?

Wanna meet up for Phish in Grand Rapids in a couple weeks?!
Something tells me Psych would rather have a root canal without being numbed than attend a Phish "show".
If it were to happen (you and Psych meeting up and going to a Phish "show") I would love to see a video of that.

Back to the RNC. I can't help but wonder if anyone who is not a brainwashed MAGA cultist can make any sense of what they witnessed if they watched the entire RNC.
Just wait till psych comes to phish and I get him dosed on shakedown street!
When you consider how therapeutic that would be, now, to not do so, would be negligent to mankind.

Re: RNC

Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2024 5:13 pm
by JKLivin
Overlander wrote: Sat Jul 20, 2024 4:07 pm
JKLivin wrote: Sat Jul 20, 2024 9:09 am
Overlander wrote: Sat Jul 20, 2024 7:52 am

So, a President should force corporations to lower profits?

Can you honestly say that YOUR streets are measurably more dangerous than they were 3 years ago?
Economic policy influences prices.

I avoid going into Detroit or Lansing now because it is a shit show everywhere you turn. Ann Arbor is heading that direction.
Absolutely NOT an answer for either of my questions.

For a genius, you seem kind of confused.
I choose to answer the questions I think are relevant.

To quote Matthew McConaughey in True Detective, “You don’t like my answers? Maybe start asking the right questions.”

Re: RNC

Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2024 5:27 pm
by ousdahl
Shirley wrote: Sat Jul 20, 2024 5:09 pm
ousdahl wrote: Sat Jul 20, 2024 4:58 pm
RainbowsandUnicorns wrote: Sat Jul 20, 2024 10:49 am

Something tells me Psych would rather have a root canal without being numbed than attend a Phish "show".
If it were to happen (you and Psych meeting up and going to a Phish "show") I would love to see a video of that.

Back to the RNC. I can't help but wonder if anyone who is not a brainwashed MAGA cultist can make any sense of what they witnessed if they watched the entire RNC.
Just wait till psych comes to phish and I get him dosed on shakedown street!
When you consider how therapeutic that would be, now, to not do so, would be negligent to mankind.
I can't find a gif of it, but in my mind I keep envisioning that episode of South Park when Mr. Mackey loosens his tie and his head deflates down to normal size

Re: RNC

Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2024 1:11 pm
by KUTradition
Overlander wrote: Sat Jul 20, 2024 7:52 am
JKLivin wrote: Sat Jul 20, 2024 6:43 am
Reasonably priced gas and groceries and safe streets will make you feel much better.
So, a President should force corporations to lower profits?

Can you honestly say that YOUR streets are measurably more dangerous than they were 3 years ago?
would you honestly believe anything psych says?

Re: RNC

Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2024 1:39 pm
by twocoach
JKLivin wrote: Fri Jul 19, 2024 9:28 pm
Sparko wrote: Fri Jul 19, 2024 9:22 pm Who determines someone is illegal makes a difference. Demographic cliff is a real thing everywhere but places with robust immigration
We already have laws in place that determine who is illegal. Thanks to Brandon, we have opened the floodgates and thrown those laws out the window.

I’m not anti- immigration. People should come in legally. They should have a skill we need, be able to support themselves, and speak English. It’s pretty simple, really.

Oh, and agree not to play soccer. Can’t forget that one.
None of what you described has happened.

Re: RNC

Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2024 1:48 pm
by JKLivin
twocoach wrote: Mon Jul 22, 2024 1:39 pm
JKLivin wrote: Fri Jul 19, 2024 9:28 pm
Sparko wrote: Fri Jul 19, 2024 9:22 pm Who determines someone is illegal makes a difference. Demographic cliff is a real thing everywhere but places with robust immigration
We already have laws in place that determine who is illegal. Thanks to Brandon, we have opened the floodgates and thrown those laws out the window.

I’m not anti- immigration. People should come in legally. They should have a skill we need, be able to support themselves, and speak English. It’s pretty simple, really.

Oh, and agree not to play soccer. Can’t forget that one.
None of what you described has happened.
https://thehill.com/opinion/4423296-mat ... start/amp/

“The number of illegal immigrants in the country has roughly doubled under President Biden. The United States had some 10.2 million illegal immigrants in 2020, and another 10 million have entered during Biden’s presidency. If the 20 million illegal immigrants were all in one state, it would be tied with New York for the fourth most populated state.”

Re: RNC

Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2024 7:58 pm
by twocoach
JKLivin wrote: Mon Jul 22, 2024 1:48 pm
twocoach wrote: Mon Jul 22, 2024 1:39 pm
JKLivin wrote: Fri Jul 19, 2024 9:28 pm

We already have laws in place that determine who is illegal. Thanks to Brandon, we have opened the floodgates and thrown those laws out the window.

I’m not anti- immigration. People should come in legally. They should have a skill we need, be able to support themselves, and speak English. It’s pretty simple, really.

Oh, and agree not to play soccer. Can’t forget that one.
None of what you described has happened.
https://thehill.com/opinion/4423296-mat ... start/amp/

“The number of illegal immigrants in the country has roughly doubled under President Biden. The United States had some 10.2 million illegal immigrants in 2020, and another 10 million have entered during Biden’s presidency. If the 20 million illegal immigrants were all in one state, it would be tied with New York for the fourth most populated state.”
Who the fuck wrote that hot mess? Talk about just cramming a bunch of numbers near each other that even the author states are "just estimates".

Super hilarious is when they use the number of border encounters to start counting but "forget" to note the number of those that resulted in a removal.

You claim to be so smart, which tells me you're aware that this is deceptive and intentionally inaccurate.

Re: RNC

Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2024 8:38 pm
by JKLivin
twocoach wrote: Mon Jul 22, 2024 7:58 pm
JKLivin wrote: Mon Jul 22, 2024 1:48 pm
twocoach wrote: Mon Jul 22, 2024 1:39 pm
None of what you described has happened.
https://thehill.com/opinion/4423296-mat ... start/amp/

“The number of illegal immigrants in the country has roughly doubled under President Biden. The United States had some 10.2 million illegal immigrants in 2020, and another 10 million have entered during Biden’s presidency. If the 20 million illegal immigrants were all in one state, it would be tied with New York for the fourth most populated state.”
Who the fuck wrote that hot mess? Talk about just cramming a bunch of numbers near each other that even the author states are "just estimates".

Super hilarious is when they use the number of border encounters to start counting but "forget" to note the number of those that resulted in a removal.

You claim to be so smart, which tells me you're aware that this is deceptive and intentionally inaccurate.
To the contrary, I think the current administration underreports the numbers as a part of the plan to replace people like me with cheap labor.