Lies. We’ve had more than 10 million (conservative estimate) illegal crossings under Giggles the Border Czar. You can’t start a flood, wait 3 1/2 years, scoop out a bucket of water, and then claim that it’s better than it was.
It's not lies, it's just facts that don't support your argument. The Biden administration has made adjustments that have significantly reduced the number of people attempting to cross the border illegally which is what you claim you want. The fact that you continue to deny it doesn't mean that it hasn't happened. It just means that your faux outrage over the border is just for show.
If the changes aren't enough, fine. Argue that. It's a valid point. But continuing to lie and deny the current state of reality just proves that you aren't actually serious about the border and that "border security is one of my main priorities" just means that you like to bitch about stuff.
That was my point: the changes are a drop in the bucket. Maybe it's just the way I'm wired, but I don't have patience for taking partial measures. This business of half-assed "reduction" approaches is meaningless in my book. You stamp out the problem. You do it emphatically. The Biden proposals - in my estimation - were the equivalent of asking nicely. We can disagree on that.
No, they aren't a drop in the bucket. You're simply comparing two different sized buckets. You can't compare the real time "what is happening now" bucket that is tracked monthly to a bucket with 4 years of monthly data in it. It is fundamentally stupid. It's not a half assed approach, you're just half-assing the analysis.
I think Gregg Deal and I must have seen Black flag about the same time, in the early 80's. Henry Rollins still tours on occasion. He has a website and you can contact him through it via email.
A decade or so ago there was a white christian nationalist club trying to open up a music venue out in Blue Springs maybe. They were gonna call the place "Rise Above". I sent Henry an email, I reminded him of his show in Lawrence at Off The Wall Hall and hanging out with him and the band at a friends apartment afterwards. Told him about the new club coming to town, and how I thought it would be cool to have The Rollins Band maybe sing the theme song for their opening.
Henry replied personally, one line, "Oh you're a thinker you are."
Re: Indigenous People's Day
Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2024 10:49 am
by KUTradition
what disingenuous, xenophobic fucks, intentionally or otherwise, fail to recognize is that the relationships and agreements being made now between the U.S. and Central American countries will also (and vastly more importantly) stem the flow of the coming waves of climate refugees
twocoach wrote: ↑Wed Oct 16, 2024 7:57 am
It's not lies, it's just facts that don't support your argument. The Biden administration has made adjustments that have significantly reduced the number of people attempting to cross the border illegally which is what you claim you want. The fact that you continue to deny it doesn't mean that it hasn't happened. It just means that your faux outrage over the border is just for show.
If the changes aren't enough, fine. Argue that. It's a valid point. But continuing to lie and deny the current state of reality just proves that you aren't actually serious about the border and that "border security is one of my main priorities" just means that you like to bitch about stuff.
That was my point: the changes are a drop in the bucket. Maybe it's just the way I'm wired, but I don't have patience for taking partial measures. This business of half-assed "reduction" approaches is meaningless in my book. You stamp out the problem. You do it emphatically. The Biden proposals - in my estimation - were the equivalent of asking nicely. We can disagree on that.
No, they aren't a drop in the bucket. You're simply comparing two different sized buckets. You can't compare the real time "what is happening now" bucket that is tracked monthly to a bucket with 4 years of monthly data in it. It is fundamentally stupid. It's not a half assed approach, you're just half-assing the analysis.
Disagree. This is an existential threat to our country, our culture, and our way of life. It demands an immediate and forceful response.
Re: Indigenous People's Day
Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2024 11:01 am
by JKLivin
KUTradition wrote: ↑Wed Oct 16, 2024 10:49 am
what disingenuous, xenophobic fucks, intentionally or otherwise, fail to recognize is that the relationships and agreements being made now between the U.S. and Central American countries will also (and vastly more importantly) stem the flow of the coming waves of climate refugees
Using euphemisms like "climate refugees" to replace "illegal aliens" or "people who break our laws and place a drain on our economy" doesn't change the fundamental existential threat to our country. You also assume that the leaders of these other counties will have any motivation to do anything to stem the flow and not just pocket the cash. I would argue that is a wrong-headed assumption.
twocoach wrote: ↑Wed Oct 16, 2024 7:57 am
It's not lies, it's just facts that don't support your argument. The Biden administration has made adjustments that have significantly reduced the number of people attempting to cross the border illegally which is what you claim you want. The fact that you continue to deny it doesn't mean that it hasn't happened. It just means that your faux outrage over the border is just for show.
If the changes aren't enough, fine. Argue that. It's a valid point. But continuing to lie and deny the current state of reality just proves that you aren't actually serious about the border and that "border security is one of my main priorities" just means that you like to bitch about stuff.
That was my point: the changes are a drop in the bucket. Maybe it's just the way I'm wired, but I don't have patience for taking partial measures. This business of half-assed "reduction" approaches is meaningless in my book. You stamp out the problem. You do it emphatically. The Biden proposals - in my estimation - were the equivalent of asking nicely. We can disagree on that.
If you are planning on staffing even one of every three of these turrets with a single live person (who can somehow keep watch 24/7/365.25), you should be aware that you’d need more people than are presently on active duty in the US military. And of course the real bitch of it is that, as your fantasies would have it, there just so happens to be a pool of 10+ million potential prisoners you might conscript for this duty, only they are probably somewhat sympathetic to the people in the crosshairs.
So, by your logic, if we can’t completely fix it right now, better to just throw up our hands and be overrun. Solid.
Yes. Starting where you can rather than standing around hand-wringing and finger-pointing is not the equivalent of making perfunctory legislative gestures to placate the woke lobby while appearing to "do something".
That was my point: the changes are a drop in the bucket. Maybe it's just the way I'm wired, but I don't have patience for taking partial measures. This business of half-assed "reduction" approaches is meaningless in my book. You stamp out the problem. You do it emphatically. The Biden proposals - in my estimation - were the equivalent of asking nicely. We can disagree on that.
No, they aren't a drop in the bucket. You're simply comparing two different sized buckets. You can't compare the real time "what is happening now" bucket that is tracked monthly to a bucket with 4 years of monthly data in it. It is fundamentally stupid. It's not a half assed approach, you're just half-assing the analysis.
Disagree. This is an existential threat to our country, our culture, and our way of life. It demands an immediate and forceful response.
There's something off about your side painting this as an acute and unfolding emergency requiring the immediate and indiscriminate machine gunning of 20 million people, while also adopting (as your most precious and most favored statistic) a talking point that describes the cumulative results over decades and administrations.
There is a reason your arguments don't fit together - even your arguments about whether or not incremental fixes are worthwhile - and that is that you are starting from a conclusion and working backwards.
No, they aren't a drop in the bucket. You're simply comparing two different sized buckets. You can't compare the real time "what is happening now" bucket that is tracked monthly to a bucket with 4 years of monthly data in it. It is fundamentally stupid. It's not a half assed approach, you're just half-assing the analysis.
Disagree. This is an existential threat to our country, our culture, and our way of life. It demands an immediate and forceful response.
There's something off about your side painting this as an acute and unfolding emergency requiring the immediate and indiscriminate machine gunning of 20 million people, while also adopting (as your most precious and most favored statistic) a talking point that describes the cumulative results over decades and administrations.
There is a reason your arguments don't fit together - even your arguments about whether or not incremental fixes are worthwhile - and that is that you are starting from a conclusion and working backwards.
I'll bite. What is my conclusion?
Re: Indigenous People's Day
Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2024 11:11 am
by jfish26
It's right there in your post.
Re: Indigenous People's Day
Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2024 11:12 am
by pdub
Do you think it would look good for the USA to create a machine gun wall to murder anyone who tried to come into our country illegally?
What would the repercussions be with our neighbors directly to the South? And the rest of our continent? And then the entire civilized world?
lol.
Fucking machine gun walls.
Insane.
Re: Indigenous People's Day
Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2024 11:15 am
by Sparko
When you deport the last immigrant, who do you hate next? Asking for Aaron Rodgers
Re: Indigenous People's Day
Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2024 11:23 am
by jfish26
pdub wrote: ↑Wed Oct 16, 2024 11:12 am
Do you think it would look good for the USA to create a machine gun wall to murder anyone who tried to come into our country illegally?
What would the repercussions be with our neighbors directly to the South? And the rest of our continent? And then the entire civilized world?
lol.
Fucking machine gun walls.
Insane.
Keep in mind the overall plan here.
We are going to solve a problem that is - to describe this in the most charitable sense - grossly exaggerated for political purposes, by taking immigration and economic policy measures that cannot do anything EXCEPT cause consumer prices to skyrocket and balloon the national debt.
Re: Indigenous People's Day
Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2024 11:48 am
by JKLivin
jfish26 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 16, 2024 11:11 am
It's right there in your post.
That there is a problem that must be addressed?
My bad.
Re: Indigenous People's Day
Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2024 11:49 am
by JKLivin
Sparko wrote: ↑Wed Oct 16, 2024 11:15 am
When you deport the last immigrant, who do you hate next? Asking for Aaron Rodgers
I assume that Trad and Overlander would still be around in your hypothetical. I'm guessing Aaron would find them as repellant as do I.
jfish26 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 16, 2024 11:11 am
It's right there in your post.
That there is a problem that must be addressed?
My bad.
Nobody disputes there is a problem.
There is, however, only vibes-based support for calling that problem presently "an existential threat to our country, our culture, and our way of life."
Sparko wrote: ↑Wed Oct 16, 2024 11:15 am
When you deport the last immigrant, who do you hate next? Asking for Aaron Rodgers
I assume that Trad and Overlander would still be around in your hypothetical. I'm guessing Aaron would find them as repellant as do I.
You joke, but your candidate in fact does openly talk about wielding the military against domestic political enemies.
And so you will understand why someone might ask: are you saying that once the brown people are cleared out, we should focus the power of the federal government against those who would speak out against Trump II?
pdub wrote: ↑Wed Oct 16, 2024 11:12 am
Do you think it would look good for the USA to create a machine gun wall to murder anyone who tried to come into our country illegally?
What would the repercussions be with our neighbors directly to the South? And the rest of our continent? And then the entire civilized world?
lol.
Fucking machine gun walls.
Insane.
Keep in mind the overall plan here.
We are going to solve a problem that is - to describe this in the most charitable sense - grossly exaggerated for political purposes, by taking immigration and economic policy measures that cannot do anything EXCEPT cause consumer prices to skyrocket and balloon the national debt.
I had the misfortune of spending an academic year in Laredo, TX as a visiting professor in the Texas A&M system in 2022. Traffic was a nightmare. There was an unbelievable housing shortage. There were power outages left and right. It was, to summarize, the worst place I have ever lived in my life. My wife and I (half) jokingly dubbed our moving process "Operation Escape Laredo."
It wasn't difficult to surmise the cause of these problems. Laredo and its sister city in Mexico, Nuevo Laredo, are on either side of the border. Laredo officially has a population of 250,000. Its infrastructure is built for that, but in reality, there were as many as four times that number of people living in the city, driving the streets, using the water and electric, and living in the apartments and houses at any given time, as many of the official residents of Nuevo Laredo were actually living in the United States, not paying taxes, but using our resources. That doesn't take into account the numbers sneaking across the border and squatting temporarily in Laredo until they moved North.
This is NOT an exaggerated problem. Extrapolate that across the entire southern border right now and imagine what it will look like as that situation continues to spread North, and you have an enormous problem everywhere.
jfish26 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 16, 2024 11:11 am
It's right there in your post.
That there is a problem that must be addressed?
My bad.
Nobody disputes there is a problem.
There is, however, only vibes-based support for calling that problem presently "an existential threat to our country, our culture, and our way of life."
See my reply to your post below. It is an existential threat. You just don't realize it yet.
KUTradition wrote: ↑Wed Oct 16, 2024 10:49 am
what disingenuous, xenophobic fucks, intentionally or otherwise, fail to recognize is that the relationships and agreements being made now between the U.S. and Central American countries will also (and vastly more importantly) stem the flow of the coming waves of climate refugees
Using euphemisms like "climate refugees" to replace "illegal aliens" or "people who break our laws and place a drain on our economy" doesn't change the fundamental existential threat to our country. You also assume that the leaders of these other counties will have any motivation to do anything to stem the flow and not just pocket the cash. I would argue that is a wrong-headed assumption.
Hence the use of the word "coming" as in "they haven't come yet. Prior to coming, they have done nothing to define them as being "illegal" at this point.
pdub wrote: ↑Wed Oct 16, 2024 11:12 am
Do you think it would look good for the USA to create a machine gun wall to murder anyone who tried to come into our country illegally?
What would the repercussions be with our neighbors directly to the South? And the rest of our continent? And then the entire civilized world?
lol.
Fucking machine gun walls.
Insane.
Keep in mind the overall plan here.
We are going to solve a problem that is - to describe this in the most charitable sense - grossly exaggerated for political purposes, by taking immigration and economic policy measures that cannot do anything EXCEPT cause consumer prices to skyrocket and balloon the national debt.
I had the misfortune of spending an academic year in Laredo, TX as a visiting professor in the Texas A&M system in 2022. Traffic was a nightmare. There was an unbelievable housing shortage. There were power outages left and right. It was, to summarize, the worst place I have ever lived in my life. My wife and I (half) jokingly dubbed our moving process "Operation Escape Laredo."
It wasn't difficult to surmise the cause of these problems. Laredo and its sister city in Mexico, Nuevo Laredo, are on either side of the border. Laredo officially has a population of 250,000. Its infrastructure is built for that, but in reality, there were as many as four times that number of people living in the city, driving the streets, using the water and electric, and living in the apartments and houses at any given time, as many of the official residents of Nuevo Laredo were actually living in the United States, not paying taxes, but using our resources. That doesn't take into account the numbers sneaking across the border and squatting temporarily in Laredo until they moved North.
This is NOT an exaggerated problem. Extrapolate that across the entire southern border right now and imagine what it will look like as that situation continues to spread North, and you have an enormous problem everywhere.
Yes, you have told this story many times. Each time it no doubt gets different/worse.
