Kansas Crimson

Also, it's easier to cheer for guys who don't kick girls in the face.

1. No, nowhere in my argument ( he's an above average to good player and his mistakes are exacerbated on this board ) do I excuse his mistakes, but his conference numbers weren't that bad ( and I'd wager that had he got to feast on OSU, WVU and TCU his numbers would be closer to his regular season average ) and all these boneheaded shots is just an example of the exacerbation -- look at his percentages -- better than a lot of the guys on our team -- if he's taking lots of boneheaded shots he's pretty good at them. Who else takes boneheaded shots? Does Grimes? Does Garrett? Does Dedric? Does Charlie? Does KJ? Yes to all. Who else has unforced turnovers? Does Grimes? Does Dotson? Does Garrett? Does Dedric? Does Charlie? Does KJ? Yes to all.

2. CnB was just in here singing kumbaya. And posters just keep popping onto this thread with their completely baseless theories.

Again, i'm not arguing about Self's decision to send Vick home. That's putting words in my mouth.
Read this part of the quote I have quoted for maybe the 4th time:

"I think it's fine to criticize his on the court behavior.
And his off the court behavior if it's something that is hurting others."


Read argument 1 and 2.

Not all theories are baseless because you can't find them in a box score or crimscore.

Not all rumors are baseless because you haven't heard them.

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:12 am Also, it's easier to cheer for guys who don't kick girls in the face.

For all the whining you do on the polibored saying people miscast you for things you haven't done or said, you sure like to throw stones.

Also, your credibility here, in general, but also specifically related to your Carlton Bragg reaction, is nil.

pdub wrote: ↑Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:15 am

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:12 am Also, it's easier to cheer for guys who don't kick girls in the face.

For all the whining you do on the polibored saying people miscast you for things you haven't done or said, you sure like to throw stones.

Also, your credibility here, in general, but also specifically related to your Carlton Bragg reaction, is nil.

The university concluded that. Not me. Talk to them about it.

How come Landen Lucas never got accused of that stuff? Evan Manning? Mitch Lightfoot?

Sorry that I don't believe there was some conspiracy against Vick that lead to the university deeming it was more than likely true it happened.

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:23 amSorry that I don't believe there was some conspiracy against Vick that lead to the university deeming it was more than likely true it happened.

Well, I stated earlier in this thread that I have big problems with the process of Title IX violations and the KU IOA department in general. For those reasons, I personally don't accept the finding to mean that the allegations are factually true.

But, that also does not mean that they are false--in fact it probably does give the allegations more credibility. And, I can understand why some fans or observers have the belief that the finding means that it rises above mere allegations and/or that the incident negatively impacts their view of Vick.

Court of public opinion.

Plus, it sure seems like Self suspended him when that stuff happened, even though we didn't find out about it for a year or whatever.

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:23 am

pdub wrote: ↑Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:15 am

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:12 am Also, it's easier to cheer for guys who don't kick girls in the face.

For all the whining you do on the polibored saying people miscast you for things you haven't done or said, you sure like to throw stones.

Also, your credibility here, in general, but also specifically related to your Carlton Bragg reaction, is nil.

The university concluded that. Not me. Talk to them about it.

How come Landen Lucas never got accused of that stuff? Evan Manning? Mitch Lightfoot?

Sorry that I don't believe there was some conspiracy against Vick that lead to the university deeming it was more than likely true it happened.

We have no idea whether they were or not because those investigations are SUPPOSED to be confidential.

twocoach wrote: ↑Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:39 amWe have no idea whether they were or not because those investigations are SUPPOSED to be confidential.

Are they? I don't think that's right. I'm not aware that you have to complete an NDA to get the results of the findings. The school itself might be prohibited from turning over docs.

twocoach wrote: ↑Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:39 am

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:23 am

pdub wrote: ↑Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:15 am

For all the whining you do on the polibored saying people miscast you for things you haven't done or said, you sure like to throw stones.

Also, your credibility here, in general, but also specifically related to your Carlton Bragg reaction, is nil.

The university concluded that. Not me. Talk to them about it.

How come Landen Lucas never got accused of that stuff? Evan Manning? Mitch Lightfoot?

Sorry that I don't believe there was some conspiracy against Vick that lead to the university deeming it was more than likely true it happened.

We have no idea whether they were or not because those investigations are SUPPOSED to be confidential.

I can safely say, with complete confidence, that Landen or Evan never kicked a girl in the face. Same with Mitch. Same with the majority of our players over the years. The highest of character guys aren't accused of doing things like this because they don't put themselves in these situations.

What about Josh Jackson? Or Marcus Morris? Or Thomas Robinson? Or Mario Little? Or Sherron Collins? etc etc etc.

You can bring up the court of public opinion here.
I've said before I get why Vick isn't people's favorite player. He's not mine.
It has nothing to do with my argument - that Vick is an above average to good player and that people on the board magnify his mistakes. And that people are ( and this is subjective and tougher to argue than the first point ) overly celebratory about his absence despite not knowing why he's absent in the first place.

Josh Jackson didn't kick a girl. He kicked a car. I find that far less egregious than kicking a girl in the face.

Marcus Morris shot people with a BB gun. I find that far less egregious than kicking a girl in the face.

I don't remember what Mario Little did.

Sherron pulled his dick out and showed it to someone. That's bad, but maybe it needed some fresh air?

Like I said, the majority of our players don't do things like kick a girl in the face.

Also, Vick may average 14pts, but he's not an above average player by Kansas standards.

Like everyone has said (except you) there is more to basketball than box score numbers.

And I've been guilty of this before, so not judging, just informing, that if during an argument on here all you can do is keep repeating yourself and saying the same thing over and over then it's likely time to just stop fighting your end of the argument.

IIRC, Little punched a girl in the face. And don't pretend like shooting people from a window, yes, even a bb gun, is some "boys will be boys" act that's not even close to kicking someone.

I don't view shooting people as a joke out of a window with a bb gun is even nearly as bad as violently kicking a girl in the face...but I'm only speaking for myself. Maybe you guys think that's super bad. But they weren't trying to hurt anyone. It wasn't violent. It was just immature.

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:46 pm And I've been guilty of this before, so not judging, just informing, that if during an argument on here all you can do is keep repeating yourself and saying the same thing over and over then it's likely time to just stop fighting your end of the argument.

I wouldn't take one iota of advice from you on arguing a point.
Ever.

And only speaking for myself, I'm in the boat of how fucking stupid do you have to be to think shooting someone, with any sort of gun, is any way a joke? It's not like they were up in the 5th floor throwing skittles at people. They were legit putting people in crosshairs and pulling a trigger.

Exhibit A of ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ of why I wouldn't take one iota of advice from you on arguing a point:

"He's a 1,000pt scorer.
I stand by the statement that he's helped us more than he's hurt us. Even relative to average scholarship players. We've had a lot of guys not do shit, or transfer, or get forced out, etc."

NDballer13 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:53 pm IIRC, Little punched a girl in the face. And don't pretend like shooting people from a window, yes, even a bb gun, is some "boys will be boys" act that's not even close to kicking someone.

Little was in a dv situation, I'm not sure all of the details, but I know it ended with him throwing a girl into a sink hard enough that the sink broke. He took a plea deal.

I've always thought, even at the time, the Little situation is the one where Bill didn't have a heavy enough hand. Would be a different outcome today, IMO.

pdub wrote: ↑Tue Feb 26, 2019 1:09 pm

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:46 pm And I've been guilty of this before, so not judging, just informing, that if during an argument on here all you can do is keep repeating yourself and saying the same thing over and over then it's likely time to just stop fighting your end of the argument.

I wouldn't take one iota of advice from you on arguing a point.
Ever.

Take it or leave it....but you've gone full illy arguing (repeating yourself mostly) to defend Vick.