Page 51 of 102
Re: Israel/Palestine
Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2023 8:29 am
by TDub
Why? it's easier for them and it sells and gets clicks. Look at you. You absolutely eat up unvetted hot takes as long as they pass through the correct algorithm to get to your feed.
Re: Israel/Palestine
Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2023 9:12 am
by jfish26
ousdahl wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2023 7:59 am
DCHawk1 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2023 7:54 am
I don't want to go full "enemy of the people" here, but the media has a LOT to answer for -- with real-life consequences as a result.
For real.
It’d be nice if journalists would do more actual journalism here, rather than taking these “well one (obviously biased) source says…” sorts of hot takes and running with it.
...because irresponsible reporting has consequences:
ousdahl wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 1:43 pm
Man, all that “hospital damage was Hamas” seems once again pretty gaslighty. as if Israel is NOT indiscriminately bombing the fuck out of Gaza either way.
But, let’s roll with it, and assume Hamas did somehow get a bunch of long range missiles into one of the most intensely surveilled places in the world.
At the very least, it’s a testament to Israeli security being a clown show.
Re: Israel/Palestine
Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2023 9:15 am
by KUTradition
cognitive dissonance at its finest
Re: Israel/Palestine
Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2023 9:16 am
by mjl2
DCHawk1 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2023 7:54 am
I don't want to go full "enemy of the people" here, but the media has a LOT to answer for -- with real-life consequences as a result.
Awful, awful consequences.
The entire Arab world is uprising about this and they aren't going to go back and fact check.
This is really, really bad.
Re: Israel/Palestine
Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2023 9:18 am
by jfish26
DCHawk1 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2023 7:54 am
I don't want to go full "enemy of the people" here, but the media has a LOT to answer for -- with real-life consequences as a result.
Israel should provide objective, documentary evidence it has when things like this happen (and otherwise not engage on this every single time).
As much as no one wants to hear this (because no one WANTS this to be true), it simply
is true that Hamas makes civilian casualties unavoidable (absent appeasement, which would have even graver consequences). And what's more, it does so purposefully.
Because of what mjl2 says in the post above this one.
Re: Israel/Palestine
Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2023 9:22 am
by KUTradition
if the pentagon does, in fact have evidence of the source of the hospital explosion, they had better publicize it
for some, the damage is done and it won’t matter. but, particularly from a political/diplomatic perspective in trying to engage with regional leaders, publicizing as much evidence as possible that would absolve Israel of direct responsibility would seem to me to be a priority
Re: Israel/Palestine
Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2023 9:26 am
by jfish26
KUTradition wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2023 9:22 am
if the pentagon does, in fact have evidence of the source of the hospital explosion, they had better publicize it
for some, the damage is done and it won’t matter. but, particularly from a political/diplomatic perspective in trying to engage with regional leaders, publicizing as much evidence as possible that would absolve Israel of direct responsibility would seem to me to be a priority
Seems like that's where it's going.
Re: Israel/Palestine
Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2023 9:40 am
by Shirley
jfish26 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2023 9:26 am
KUTradition wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2023 9:22 am
if the pentagon does, in fact have evidence of the source of the hospital explosion, they had better publicize it
for some, the damage is done and it won’t matter. but, particularly from a political/diplomatic perspective in trying to engage with regional leaders, publicizing as much evidence as possible that would absolve Israel of direct responsibility would seem to me to be a priority
Seems like that's where it's going.
I'm not sure it applies in this instance, especially under the circumstances, but being too transparent about data and information like this can give the people you're observing extremely valuable information.
Re: Israel/Palestine
Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2023 9:44 am
by KUTradition
Shirley wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2023 9:40 am
jfish26 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2023 9:26 am
KUTradition wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2023 9:22 am
if the pentagon does, in fact have evidence of the source of the hospital explosion, they had better publicize it
for some, the damage is done and it won’t matter. but, particularly from a political/diplomatic perspective in trying to engage with regional leaders, publicizing as much evidence as possible that would absolve Israel of direct responsibility would seem to me to be a priority
Seems like that's where it's going.
I'm not sure it applies in this instance, especially under the circumstances, but being too transparent about data and information like this can give the people you're observing extremely valuable information.
but what’s more important?
salvaging support from regional leaders, or not showing a bit of “our” hand to hamas
Re: Israel/Palestine
Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2023 9:48 am
by jfish26
Shirley wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2023 9:40 am
jfish26 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2023 9:26 am
KUTradition wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2023 9:22 am
if the pentagon does, in fact have evidence of the source of the hospital explosion, they had better publicize it
for some, the damage is done and it won’t matter. but, particularly from a political/diplomatic perspective in trying to engage with regional leaders, publicizing as much evidence as possible that would absolve Israel of direct responsibility would seem to me to be a priority
Seems like that's where it's going.
I'm not sure it applies in this instance, especially under the circumstances, but being too transparent about data and information like this can give the people you're observing extremely valuable information.
I dunno, feels like we can disclose imagery in a way that gives nothing up; "here's what it looks like when a bomb goes off, here's what it looks like when a rocket misfires, here's what it looks like when an ammo dump catches fire." Maybe you use Ukraine/Russia exemplary images for shits and giggles.
Can you win the PR war? No. But if you get this to where the rubes of the world are left with a "well, how do we KNOW that Israel didn't fire a Hamas-style rocket at the hospital to make it LOOK like an accident that blew up an ammo store in a hospital!?!!!?"...that's probably as much as you can expect.
Re: Israel/Palestine
Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2023 10:12 am
by DCHawk1
Saudi Arabian state media issued a warning for all Saudis to leave Lebanon...
Re: Israel/Palestine
Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2023 10:21 am
by mjl2
jfish26 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2023 9:48 am
Shirley wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2023 9:40 am
jfish26 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2023 9:26 am
Seems like that's where it's going.
I'm not sure it applies in this instance, especially under the circumstances, but being too transparent about data and information like this can give the people you're observing extremely valuable information.
I dunno, feels like we can disclose imagery in a way that gives nothing up; "here's what it looks like when a bomb goes off, here's what it looks like when a rocket misfires, here's what it looks like when an ammo dump catches fire." Maybe you use Ukraine/Russia exemplary images for shits and giggles.
Can you win the PR war? No. But if you get this to where the rubes of the world are left with a "well, how do we KNOW that Israel didn't fire a Hamas-style rocket at the hospital to make it LOOK like an accident that blew up an ammo store in a hospital!?!!!?"...that's probably as much as you can expect.
Except they know it was PIJ, not Hamas.
The fact that they know that (assuming this is true) indicates some likely spying on PIJ
Re: Israel/Palestine
Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2023 10:22 am
by japhy
jfish26 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2023 9:48 am
Can you win the PR war? No. But if you get this to where the rubes of the world are left with a "well, how do we KNOW that Israel didn't fire a Hamas-style rocket at the hospital to make it LOOK like an accident that blew up an ammo store in a hospital!?!!!?"...that's probably as much as you can expect.
Jesus, you are starting to be able think like Qusdahl. That should worry you.
Re: Israel/Palestine
Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2023 10:23 am
by Sparko
Agreed MJL2. It benefited Israel in no way too. Cold logic of info ops.
Re: Israel/Palestine
Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2023 10:26 am
by jfish26
japhy wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2023 10:22 am
jfish26 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2023 9:48 am
Can you win the PR war? No. But if you get this to where the rubes of the world are left with a "well, how do we KNOW that Israel didn't fire a Hamas-style rocket at the hospital to make it LOOK like an accident that blew up an ammo store in a hospital!?!!!?"...that's probably as much as you can expect.
Jesus, you are starting to be able think like Qusdahl. That should worry you.
To be fair, Randy's provided a pretty solid playbook to crib from.
Re: Israel/Palestine
Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2023 10:29 am
by Sparko
No shit, Fish. Randy contorted some logic.
Re: Israel/Palestine
Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2023 10:36 am
by jfish26
Sparko wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2023 10:29 am
No shit, Fish. Randy contorted some logic.
And of course the through-line speaks for itself: misinformation and illogic isn't issue-specific. To me, anyway, that suggests the existence of a coordinated effort to divide the West against itself.
(Also supporting this theory is, of course, the fact that Randy and his ilk are desperate to convince us that there is in fact a central menace at play, but it's the WEF and Blackrock and the Biden Crime Family and blah blah blah. Every accusation...)
Re: Israel/Palestine
Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2023 11:40 am
by ousdahl
KUTradition wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2023 9:15 am
cognitive dissonance at its finest
Help a brother out. How is this cognitive dissonance?
Re: Israel/Palestine
Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2023 11:41 am
by ousdahl
jfish26 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2023 9:12 am
ousdahl wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2023 7:59 am
DCHawk1 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2023 7:54 am
I don't want to go full "enemy of the people" here, but the media has a LOT to answer for -- with real-life consequences as a result.
For real.
It’d be nice if journalists would do more actual journalism here, rather than taking these “well one (obviously biased) source says…” sorts of hot takes and running with it.
...because irresponsible reporting has consequences:
ousdahl wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 1:43 pm
Man, all that “hospital damage was Hamas” seems once again pretty gaslighty. as if Israel is NOT indiscriminately bombing the fuck out of Gaza either way.
But, let’s roll with it, and assume Hamas did somehow get a bunch of long range missiles into one of the most intensely surveilled places in the world.
At the very least, it’s a testament to Israeli security being a clown show.
?
I’m not sure this is the zinger you think it is.
Re: Israel/Palestine
Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2023 11:42 am
by KUTradition
sounds like entry of humanitarian aid to gaza has been approved by Israel