No One Cares Because Nothing Matters Anymore

[kubowler99]

even if it's an "illegal" strike?

The Senate has approved a measure meant to avert a railroad strike in eight days — without the paid sick days rail workers have been asking for.

Senators passed the bill to force unions to accept a tentative agreement reached earlier this year between railroad managers and their workers and make an imminent strike illegal — without making any changes — by an 80-15 vote. They rejected a measure to offer paid sick leave, 52-43. Both measures required 60 votes to clear the Senate.

Both bills cleared the House on Wednesday.

Biden applauded the move and vowed to sign it as soon as Congress sends it to his desk — which could happen as soon as Friday.

https://www.npr.org/2022/12/01/11401236 ... ill-senate

To be fair, you probably need to quote this as well:

"Six Republicans voted in favor of the Senate's paid sick leave effort and only one Democrat — Joe Manchin — voted against it."

So basically the Republicans were against the paid sick leave, and ultimately the Democrats had to concede in order to avoid the catastrophic shutdown, if I'm reading this correctly, yes?

And yes, it sucks, as I would have much rather A) Not had the government involved, or B) Had the government include the paid sick leave - But it needs to be called out the REPUBLICANS are the reason for B. As for A, that's on the corporations...and is anyone surprised the REPUBLICANS sided with the corporations (as well as force the Dem's/Biden's hand on this in order to have a misleading talking point)?

[ousdahl]

I mean, I guess you play the partisan blame game about it, I guess.

But at the end of the day, it was a bipartisan effort.

I think a better way to think of it is something along the lines of, when there's such a dispute between labor and capital, the gummint effectively plays the role of capital's hired muscle.

But, if it is less that and more just another partisan thing, then dems can and should be rubbing this in pubs' faces, constantly reminding the nation at large how much the GOP hates workers. Or something.

And if dems are too spineless to go hard on a vote for labor to begin with, I kinda doubt they'll go hard about rubbing the GOP's face in it, either.

Besides, there's the whole temporarily embarrassed millionaire issue: there's no guarantee that a pro-worker stance has any popular appeal in this country anyway. So many folks believe the more important thing is the economy, or whatever, just like the rhetoric says

[twocoach]

oh, forgive me. Perhaps I neglected to clarify they're trying for paid sick leave. A whopping 4-7 days or something. I don't think that's necessarily a misrepresentation, nor do I think you've demonstrated that such a misrepresentation is intentional.

So, rather than me risk intentionally misrepresenting anything further, could you please take the lead here in helping us better understand the issue at hand?

where's it say they CAN currently take sick days? Did you double check whether they CAN just call in to take an unpaid sick day without consequence? Or have there been any examples otherwise?

And, if a worker is living paycheck to paycheck with no paid sick leave available, do you think there's any possibility of workers effectively having to choose to work while sick so their paycheck doesn't shrink?

and is paid sick leave the only thing they're trying to negotiate here? Are you familiar with the whole scheduling thing too - where workers claim they have to be on call 24/7 for 2 weeks straight, and if they aren't able to get to work within 90 minutes, day or night, or if they take an unpaid sick day, they're penalized as part of some "points" system of attendance? How's that work?

I'd try to offer what insight and evidence that I can, but again, I certainly don't want to intentionally misrepresent anything, so perhaps it's better to allow you to explain all this for us instead.

what's your opinion, anyway, illy? Do you think paid sick leave is reasonable or unreasonable?

How much of a dent would paid sick days really put in the railroad brass's profits, anyway?

What about the whole on-call 24-7 for 2 weeks straight thing?


oh, and thanks for the link. I know I just offered lots of questions, but your link does too. If you choose not to respond to my questions, please at least consider responding to these questions from your link:

why is the pressure not on the railroads to come to the table and negotiate four measly sick days, paid sick days for its workers?

why can't the legislation include the sick leave?

"What about the whole on-call 24-7 for 2 weeks straight thing?"

It's weird that this is some sort of problem as many professions have on-call rotations. I know plenty of people who have changed teams within my employer or left my employer entirely because they did not like the on-call situations they had to deal with.

[ousdahl]

yea. I've been on call for jobs too. It definitely sucks having to suddenly deal with work shit in the middle of the night and shit.

There's at least some stories of train conductors falling asleep at the wheel after they were summoned in the middle of the night on 90 minutes notice to suddenly have to drive a train across the country or whatever.

Just thinking out loud, but I wonder if the train industry executives too have to deal with on-call schedules, no sick days, a point-based attendance system, etc.

[twocoach]

yea. I've been on call for jobs too. It definitely sucks having to suddenly deal with work shit in the middle of the night and shit.

There's at least some stories of train conductors falling asleep at the wheel after they were summoned in the middle of the night on 90 minutes notice to suddenly have to drive a train across the country or whatever.

Just thinking out loud, but I wonder if the train industry executives too have to deal with on-call schedules, no sick days, a point-based attendance system, etc.

I have had our CIO on outage calls at 2am before so I think what you're implying might be a bit of a broad stroke assumption on your part in an attempt to make a point.

[ousdahl]

yea.

tho, I'm not sure a single isolated anecdote does much to make a point, either.

[twocoach]

yea.

tho, I'm not sure a single isolated anecdote does much to make a point, either.

In general, on-call services are to fix specific issues and only require the people who can fix a problem to respond. You're making a pointless point.

[Deleted User 863]

yea.

tho, I'm not sure a single isolated anecdote does much to make a point, either.

In general, on-call services are to fix specific issues and only require the people who can fix a problem to respond. You're making a pointless point.

His point is that CEOs and upper management do nothing. Ever. End of story.

Which ironically seems like something he'd be good at since he doesn't appear to do much on a daily basis.

[Mjl]

Does anyone here actually get paid sick days? Or, like the rail workers, is it lumped in with PTO?

I do get sick days separately but was of the understanding that that's not common. This is the only company I have worked for that gave that.

[Deleted User 863]

Does anyone here actually get paid sick days? Or, like the rail workers, is it lumped in with PTO?

I do get sick days separately but was of the understanding that that's not common. This is the only company I have worked for that gave that.

I did at my last job. New job is unlimited.

[jhawks99]

Does anyone here actually get paid sick days? Or, like the rail workers, is it lumped in with PTO?

I do get sick days separately but was of the understanding that that's not common. This is the only company I have worked for that gave that.

They are separate in the company that I work for.

[KUTradition]

i get paid sick days

it’s limited, but i don’t recall how many

[ousdahl]

I think with the rail workers, the brass already considers sick days negotiated as part of their paid time off anyway?

Of course, also pretty sure Merica also is like one of the only developed countries that doesn’t have some sorta sick leave as a matter of public policy

[MICHHAWK]

most companies are getting away from separating vac and sick. and lumping them together into one bucket called pto.

my nephew and his wife had a baby just last week. she gets 3 months off. he gets 1 month off. they don't need government mandates

[TDub]

strikes shouldn't be illegal, I dont even know how you can make them illegal. Its not illegal to not go to work.....whats the charge?

The government needs to get out of being involved in the whole deal altogether.

[jhawks99]

most companies are getting away from separating vac and sick. and lumping them together into one bucket called pto.

my nephew and his wife had a baby just last week. she gets 3 months off. he gets 1 month off. they don't need government mandates

The servers I worked with did not get paid for the shift during which they had their baby. There was no paid maternity leave. They got no money for anytime they were not at work. There does need to be government mandates.

[twocoach]

most companies are getting away from separating vac and sick. and lumping them together into one bucket called pto.

my nephew and his wife had a baby just last week. she gets 3 months off. he gets 1 month off. they don't need government mandates

The servers I worked with did not get paid for the shift during which they had their baby. There was no paid maternity leave. They got no money for anytime they were not at work. There does need to be government mandates.

Servers? As in servers at a restaurant? You aren't getting paid leave from a restaurant.

[ousdahl]

if it's not the gummint having to mandate these sorts of things, it would otherwise have to be the workers themselves, in the form of robust unions and effective organizing and such.

one way or another, we gotta keep the capitalists in check, right?

cuz if it was entirely up to the capitalists, most of us would still be working 80 hour weeks for a nickel an hour

[ousdahl]

most companies are getting away from separating vac and sick. and lumping them together into one bucket called pto.

my nephew and his wife had a baby just last week. she gets 3 months off. he gets 1 month off. they don't need government mandates

The servers I worked with did not get paid for the shift during which they had their baby. There was no paid maternity leave. They got no money for anytime they were not at work. There does need to be government mandates.

Servers? As in servers at a restaurant? You aren't getting paid leave from a restaurant.

not yet at least...sigh.

at least, not until we collectively realize that "unskilled labor" is a myth

[jhawks99]

most companies are getting away from separating vac and sick. and lumping them together into one bucket called pto.

my nephew and his wife had a baby just last week. she gets 3 months off. he gets 1 month off. they don't need government mandates

The servers I worked with did not get paid for the shift during which they had their baby. There was no paid maternity leave. They got no money for anytime they were not at work. There does need to be government mandates.

Servers? As in servers at a restaurant? You aren't getting paid leave from a restaurant.

Yes, in a restaurant. No work = no pay. Miss too much and they replace you. At the opening of one restaurant I worked for, a server asked about benefits. The owner said, "Your pay is your effin benefit".