Kansas Crimson

jfish26 wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 4:34 pm

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 4:33 pm I think the prosecutor may actually get a pretty favorable jury pool in Minny (it's not the south), but you never really know until it's all over.

For KC people...trial will be in [Jackson County]. Much better spot (for the prosecutors) than [Johnson] or [Platte].

Feral wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 4:36 pm

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 4:12 pm

jfish26 wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 4:02 pm

I guess I don't see this report as all that helpful.

Seems like it's ready-made for a prosecutor to identify where in the tape he goes unresponsive, set a timer to when the knee comes off, and ask the jury to try to hold their breath.

I don't see that as relevant/admissible for the factual causation element, but perhaps for the depraved mind element(s). I think DC is trying to say the ME will hurt the causation element.

I agree, and was surprised that Fish, (seemed originally), not to agree.

I spent several years evaluating medical records for attorneys for potential med mal cases, and the last paragraph seems designed to facilitate the creation of doubt.

Grandma wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 4:31 pm

DCHawk1 wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 4:27 pm In fact, in real life, you don't have to deprive a guy with hypertensive heart disease of oxygen for long before you effectively kill him.


And along those lines, I still want to know what happened that he ended up on the ground, already cuffed, with three guys on him -- because the reports say he was telling officers he couldn't breathe before the original video.

Posted this right before your post. Helps explain SOME things to SOME degree. https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/05/29/ ... t-minutes/

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 4:37 pm

jfish26 wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 4:34 pm

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 4:33 pm I think the prosecutor may actually get a pretty favorable jury pool in Minny (it's not the south), but you never really know until it's all over.

For KC people...trial will be in [Jackson County]. Much better spot (for the prosecutors) than [Johnson] or [Platte].

How big is Hennepin County? Does it pull from rural?

Jackson County can get rural voters up north, but it doesn't outweigh the city.

jfish26 wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 4:38 pm

Feral wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 4:36 pm

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 4:12 pm

I don't see that as relevant/admissible for the factual causation element, but perhaps for the depraved mind element(s). I think DC is trying to say the ME will hurt the causation element.

I agree, and was surprised that Fish, (seemed originally), not to agree.

I spent several years evaluating medical records for attorneys for potential med mal cases, and the last paragraph seems designed to facilitate the creation of doubt.

Of course it supports the argument.

And of course the defense should make the argument.

I'm just saying it's a gross-ass fucking argument.

I get why it needs to be made, both in this case and in the criminal justice macro sense.

It's just fucking gross.

Feral wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 4:40 pm

jfish26 wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 4:38 pm

Feral wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 4:36 pm

I agree, and was surprised that Fish, (seemed originally), not to agree.

I spent several years evaluating medical records for attorneys for potential med mal cases, and the last paragraph seems designed to facilitate the creation of doubt.

Of course it supports the argument.

And of course the defense should make the argument.

I'm just saying it's a gross-ass fucking argument.

I get why it needs to be made, both in this case and in the criminal justice macro sense.

It's just fucking gross.

I was confused by this, your response to the ME report:

I guess I don't see this report as all that helpful.

Seems like it's ready-made for a prosecutor to identify where in the tape he goes unresponsive, set a timer to when the knee comes off, and ask the jury to try to hold their breath.

jfish26 wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 4:39 pm

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 4:37 pm

jfish26 wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 4:34 pm

For KC people...trial will be in [Jackson County]. Much better spot (for the prosecutors) than [Johnson] or [Platte].

How big is Hennepin County? Does it pull from rural?

Jackson County can get rural voters up north, but it doesn't outweigh the city.

Not much at all. Some blue collar to the northwest, but you're still in suburbs.

You might have some traction with the MAGAtonka-types.

Grandma wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 4:31 pm

DCHawk1 wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 4:27 pm In fact, in real life, you don't have to deprive a guy with hypertensive heart disease of oxygen for long before you effectively kill him.


And along those lines, I still want to know what happened that he ended up on the ground, already cuffed, with three guys on him -- because the reports say he was telling officers he couldn't breathe before the original video.

Posted this right before your post. Helps explain SOME things to SOME degree. https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/05/29/ ... t-minutes/

DCHawk1 wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 4:50 pm

Grandma wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 4:31 pm

DCHawk1 wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 4:27 pm In fact, in real life, you don't have to deprive a guy with hypertensive heart disease of oxygen for long before you effectively kill him.


And along those lines, I still want to know what happened that he ended up on the ground, already cuffed, with three guys on him -- because the reports say he was telling officers he couldn't breathe before the original video.

Posted this right before your post. Helps explain SOME things to SOME degree. https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/05/29/ ... t-minutes/

Two things:

1. a counterfeit $20 bill

My God.

2. Mr. Floyd stiffened up, fell to the ground, and told the officers he was claustrophobic....The officers made several attempts to get Mr. Floyd in the backseat of squad 320 from the driver’s side. Mr. Floyd did not voluntarily get in the car and struggled with the officers by intentionally falling down, saying he was not going in the car, and refusing to stand still....While standing outside the car, Mr. Floyd began saying and repeating that he could not breathe. The defendant went to the passenger side and tried to get Mr. Floyd into the car from that side and Lane and Kueng assisted."

Seahawk said the other day that prosecutors will tell you that every LEO says "he resisted." This is probably true. But LEOs will tell you that every handcuffed subject will tell you "I can't breathe."

Again, I'm not saying that this should be a legitimate defense, only that they will use it. "Every subject says 'I can't breathe.' And Mr. Floyd had already said he was claustrophobic and couldn't breathe, so there was no way the officer could know that he really was in respiratory distress."

DCHawk1 wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 4:57 pmYou take a nap?

Geezer wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 5:00 pm Eric Garner said "I can't breathe."

NiceDC wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 5:10 pm

DCHawk1 wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 4:57 pmYou take a nap?

Not Nice.