COVID-19 - On the Ground

[pdub]

OK, you got me.
I don't agree exactly with you so i'm antivax.

[sdoyel]

"And now just because I said this, people will flip and think, oh, we gotta go after pdub now, he doesn't agree exactly with us, even though I think Rodgers is a Moran for not just getting a shot."

I tried to make it very clear that it's your overall behavior from your history of posting as well as a moderator that shows you're antivax.

If you don't want to appear as antivaxx stop doing antivaxx things.

"I know it's very very difficult here to think slightly in any way at all, any way, at all, differently, and that any push back, at all, is now instantly labeled as anti vax or what not but..."

Are you vaccinated?

[PhDhawk]

Yet you have no hesitation deleting and moving posts about the virus because you don't want to promote vaccines or truth.

The only posts i've deleted about the virus are those of absolute false news that were flagged.
The only posts i've moved are those on the sports bored which i've always, since the start of this, have mandated to keep politics free.

be honest. Colbond was the mod who deleted those posts and he had to fight you to do it.

[pdub]

He deleted posts.
I did as well.

[pdub]

I tried to make it very clear that it's your overall behavior from your history of posting as well as a moderator that shows you're antivax.

If you don't want to appear as antivaxx stop doing antivaxx things.

"I know it's very very difficult here to think slightly in any way at all, any way, at all, differently, and that any push back, at all, is now instantly labeled as anti vax or what not but..."

Are you vaccinated?

Yea, Ive been immunized.

[PhDhawk]

OK, you got me.
I don't agree exactly with you so i'm antivax.

Coming up with convoluted ways to defend not being vaccinated Providing a platform for misinformation about vaccines, stifling and complaining about pro vax threads. Downplaying the virus and downplaying the vaccine safety and efficacy, and ignoring that it is transmitted from person to person are what makes you antivax.

[pdub]

"Coming up with convoluted ways to defend not being vaccinated"

Your opinion. Not true.

"Providing a platform for misinformation about vaccines"

This platform is an open forum for all sorts of shit - keep it on Off Topic or Polibored.

"stifling and complaining about pro vax threads"

Not stifling unless they are on a sports bored. Complaining if they are on sports boreds.

"Downplaying the virus and downplaying the vaccine safety and efficacy"

Your opinion. Not true.

"ignoring that it is transmitted from person to person"

Not true at all. Fallacy.

[PhDhawk]

Your posts and moderating decisions speak for themselves

[PhDhawk]

"Coming up with convoluted ways to defend not being vaccinated"

Your opinion. Not true.

"Providing a platform for misinformation about vaccines"

This platform is an open forum for all sorts of shit - keep it on Off Topic or Polibored.

"stifling and complaining about pro vax threads"

Not stifling unless they are on a sports bored. Complaining if they are on sports boreds.

"Downplaying the virus and downplaying the vaccine safety and efficacy"

Your opinion. Not true.

"ignoring that it is transmitted from person to person"

Not true at all. Fallacy.

And I'm sorry but you're full of shit You can't play the "it's his body" bullshit card unless you ignore that you're intentionally putting other people at an increased risk of a life threatening virus by not getting vaccinated.

[pdub]

They do speak for themselves.
Which doesn't exactly fit what you believe.
So that makes you upset and you get cranky and call people names and label them antivax.

[pdub]

You can play the 'it's his body' card - just by simply saying, 'it's his body'.
Because, you know, 'it's his body'.

How many times do I have to say it is a dumb decision?
Do I need to requote all the posts over the last 2 hours?

[pdub]

I'd also say calling me antivax would be like my calling you something like a 'libtard'.
It's silly. And it's wrong. And it doesn't do anything.

[PhDhawk]

Other people's bodies get hurt when you don't vaccinate your body with a safe and effective vaccine.

That (his body, his choice) is a lousy selfish argument when it's about things that can kill other people. Especially when it's something you can do safely for free.

[ousdahl]

Is there any way to encourage and promote vaccines that would work?

especially at this point

War or peace?
Which route have you generally promoted ous?
Closer to war or closer to peace?

I think peace?

I hope peace.

Except in the QT thread

[Cascadia]

Yet you have no hesitation deleting and moving posts about the virus because you don't want to promote vaccines or truth.

The only posts i've deleted about the virus are those of absolute false news that were flagged.
The only posts i've moved are those on the sports bored which i've always, since the start of this, have mandated to keep politics free.

Covid is not a political issue

[Cascadia]

Let's be very clear about one thing. We tried the positive encouragement to get vaccinated for a LONG FUCKING time.

But, that time has passed. If you're willfully unvaccinated then fuck you, I do hope you die so we can get past this epidemic as soon as possible.

[sdoyel]

Let's be very clear about one thing. We tried the positive encouragement to get vaccinated for a LONG FUCKING time.

But, that time has passed. If you're willfully unvaccinated then fuck you, I do hope you die so we can get past this epidemic as soon as possible.

Yep. Zero fucks given at this point.

You get what you ultimately ask for…

[sdoyel]

[PhDhawk]

Breakthrough infections might not be a big transmission risk. Here's the evidence

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-sho ... ansmission

Ross Kedl, an immunologist at the University of Colorado School of Medicine, will point out to anyone who cares to listen that basic immunology suggests the virus of a vaccinated person who gets infected will be different from the virus of an infected unvaccinated person.

That's because vaccinated people have already made antibodies to the coronavirus. Even if those antibodies don't prevent infection, they still "should be coating that virus with antibody and therefore helping prevent excessive downstream transmission," Kedl says. And a virus coated with antibodies won't be as infectious as a virus not coated in antibodies.

Immunologist Jennifer Gommerman of the University of Toronto found this as well.

"This is the first example where we can show that a local mucosal immune response is made, even though the person got the vaccine in an intramuscular delivery," Gommerman says.

If there are antibodies in the mucosal membranes, they would likely be coating any virus that got into the nose or throat. So any virus that was exhaled by a sneeze or a cough would likely be less infectious.

Marion Pepper, an immunologist at the University of Washington, says a recent study from the Netherlands looked at how well virus from vaccinated people could infect cells in the lab.

Pepper says the answer was not well.

"If you actually isolate virus from people who are getting a secondary infection after being vaccinated, that virus is less good at infecting cells," Pepper says.

[PhDhawk]

those viral load measurements are following infection, not long-term

vaccination greatly reduces the risk of severe, long-term infection...and hence, long-term viral load

edit: also, unless i’m mistaken, the data used for the claim of similar viral loads is from “breakthrough” infections

It's also done by PCR, which tells you how many virus genomes are present, but it doesn't tell you how many of them are viable and infectious. Presumably, if a healthy vaccinated person is winning the fight between immune system and virus, that fewer of those genomes will become new infectious viral particles that will be released.

Also, like trad said, they're going to clear it faster, so even if the peak viral load is the same, the area under the curve, the total viral load won't be.

Guess Trad and I were correct.

Vaccinated people are less likely to spread Covid, new research finds


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnew ... cna1280583

Both vaccines reduced transmission, although they were more effective against the alpha variant compared to the delta variant. When infected with the delta variant, a given contact was 65 percent less likely to test positive if the person from whom the exposure occurred was fully vaccinated with two doses of the Pfizer vaccine.

Using cycle threshold (Ct) values, the researchers found a similar level of viral load in unvaccinated and vaccinated people who were infected with the delta variant, backing up prior studies. Even so, people who were fully vaccinated were still less likely to infect others.

“Transmission is much more complex,” Butler-Wu said, meaning the Ct value is just a snapshot in time and doesn’t reflect the entire course of illness.

It's likely that people who have been vaccinated clear the infectious virus from the body faster. A previous study from Singapore had found that although levels of the virus were initially the same in those infected with the delta variant regardless of vaccine status, by day seven, levels of the virus dropped quickly in those who were vaccinated, which may reduce the ability to spread illness.

There is emerging evidence that even though cycle threshold values may be the same regardless of vaccination status, people who are vaccinated may have less infectious virus in their bodies, potentially reducing transmission. Richterman pointed to a recent pre-print from China that found a large reduction in transmission in those who had received two doses of vaccine, compared to the unvaccinated.

Vaccines have the ability to prevent transmission of the virus in two ways, he said. The first is by preventing infection altogether. The other is by reducing the amount of infectious virus should somebody get sick.

“People who have been vaccinated will have immune systems at the ready that can coat the virus in antibodies much more quickly than unvaccinated people who have to build up an immune response,” Richterman said.