Kansas Crimson

TDub wrote: ↑Fri Apr 10, 2020 9:43 pm

seahawk wrote: ↑Fri Apr 10, 2020 1:20 pm

TDub wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 10:25 pm

If prisons are full are they being overbuilt?

Every school district in the county has passed bonds to provide upgrades and new facilities in the last 5 years. No one is choosing.

So you hate providing jobs for these people but you would gladly provide them with welfare checks?

You are a seriously sick puppy if you believe that people should be deprived of their liberty, have ridiculously long sentences, burden the taxpayers with the high costs of imprisonment so that some folks who live in dying small towns can keep their made up jobs. No, I think that many of those prisons should be closed and their jobs should go away. And I'm guessing that after this crisis, there will be some serious reassessment of the why's of keep someone past age 60 in prison because some Republican legislator pegged his re-election on making drastically long sentences and now we have this geriatric prison population. I mean, really, does even such as you imagine all those 55+ diabetic, COPD sufferers as armed robbers running down the street?

As for schools, I realize that you can only conceive of what benefits you personally and directly, so you talk about school construction, but there are other costs to schools. When I was working on how to reduce prison populations back in the 1980s, the experts predicted that states would have to make choices between schools and prisons and we've seen the choice as states have withdrawn support for universities and millennials have been hit with huge loans as a consequence. This crisis has shown us why we should continue to fund the scientific research in our universities and not the architects of prisons or the concrete contractors.

As for jobs, instead of prison jobs, I see no problem with providing subsidies to all kinds of infrastructure projects. We need infrastructure spending far more than more prison beds or money going into the pockets of the vile private prison contractors. As I recall from listening to economists, infrastructure spending is the quickest way to funnel funds out to job seekers.

Im sorry you dont like the current laws.l Im sorry that you hate small towns. Its quite clear that we have different life experiences in every aspect. Sorry you hate all of us dumbo bubbas in rural areas. We should probably just all try to be more like you.

Hating that people are tossed into jails at an absurdly high rate for longer than is reasonable so that the economy of a shrinking rural area can be propped up by prison jobs isn't "hating small towns". With some common sense, compassion and sweeping prison reform changes, we could find new industries to base in these areas that don't throw a portion of our citizens away like garbage.

Empty out some of those prisons and replace them with giant 3D printing shops so we don't have to rely on China for so many miscellaneous goods. Give more grants and scholarships to rural kids who want to reinvigorate their rural communities.

I love small town America; my Dad is from a town of less than a thousand in Eastern Kansas and our ancestral home he grew up in is still in our family. I want to see money spent to help those communities that doesn't require the excessive punishment of US citizens in order to generate that money.

TraditionKU wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:09 pm

TDub wrote: ↑Fri Apr 10, 2020 9:46 pm Im not against infrastructure upgrades. There is not nearly as much infrastructure in rural America though so not sure how that helps job creation.


Wait, thats right. They should all strive to leave their small towns and be like all you big kids in the city. Everyone should bw forced to work in the city to survive and to be accepted by you as relevant non bubba individuals.

who said they have to move? nothing wrong with working on the road to make a living

Theres nothing wrong with working on the road. Theres nothing wrong with taking a local opportunity either. Thars my point. Youre not a dumbshit for staying local if it is available.

twocoach wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 4:34 pm

TDub wrote: ↑Fri Apr 10, 2020 9:43 pm

seahawk wrote: ↑Fri Apr 10, 2020 1:20 pm

You are a seriously sick puppy if you believe that people should be deprived of their liberty, have ridiculously long sentences, burden the taxpayers with the high costs of imprisonment so that some folks who live in dying small towns can keep their made up jobs. No, I think that many of those prisons should be closed and their jobs should go away. And I'm guessing that after this crisis, there will be some serious reassessment of the why's of keep someone past age 60 in prison because some Republican legislator pegged his re-election on making drastically long sentences and now we have this geriatric prison population. I mean, really, does even such as you imagine all those 55+ diabetic, COPD sufferers as armed robbers running down the street?

As for schools, I realize that you can only conceive of what benefits you personally and directly, so you talk about school construction, but there are other costs to schools. When I was working on how to reduce prison populations back in the 1980s, the experts predicted that states would have to make choices between schools and prisons and we've seen the choice as states have withdrawn support for universities and millennials have been hit with huge loans as a consequence. This crisis has shown us why we should continue to fund the scientific research in our universities and not the architects of prisons or the concrete contractors.

As for jobs, instead of prison jobs, I see no problem with providing subsidies to all kinds of infrastructure projects. We need infrastructure spending far more than more prison beds or money going into the pockets of the vile private prison contractors. As I recall from listening to economists, infrastructure spending is the quickest way to funnel funds out to job seekers.

Im sorry you dont like the current laws.l Im sorry that you hate small towns. Its quite clear that we have different life experiences in every aspect. Sorry you hate all of us dumbo bubbas in rural areas. We should probably just all try to be more like you.

Hating that people are tossed into jails at an absurdly high rate for longer than is reasonable so that the economy of a shrinking rural area can be propped up by prison jobs isn't "hating small towns". With some common sense, compassion and sweeping prison reform changes, we could find new industries to base in these areas that don't throw a portion of our citizens away like garbage.

Empty out some of those prisons and replace them with giant 3D printing shops so we don't have to rely on China for so many miscellaneous goods. Give more grants and scholarships to rural kids who want to reinvigorate their rural communities.

I love small town America; my Dad is from a town of less than a thousand in Eastern Kansas and our ancestral home he grew up in is still in our family. I want to see money spent to help those communities that doesn't require the excessive punishment of US citizens in order to generate that money.

This argument isnt about prisons, it changed to become that seahawk chose to make it about that instead of defending her position that people who work in rural prisons are ill educated idiots. Bubba dumbfucks because they choose not to move to a city. Its not true.

Oops. Bad post. Sorry!

HouseDivided wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 4:32 pm

Grandma wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 4:28 pm

Feral wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 12:43 pm

It's time for her to step on a used heroin needle.

KFC

I don't know what "KFC" means. Other than Kentucky Fried Chicken.
Did you understand my post?

kill for christ?

ha, well played, trad.

It's Zoom for the Kansas Supremes:

Grandma wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 5:28 pm

HouseDivided wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 4:32 pm

Grandma wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 4:28 pm

It's time for her to step on a used heroin needle.

KFC

I don't know what "KFC" means. Other than Kentucky Fried Chicken.
Did you understand my post?

It’s my version of Plano’s “JFC”.

Why wish bad things on her just because you disagree with her politics?

Gotcha!
I didn't say I wanted/wished her to step on a used heroin needle, I said it is time for her to step on one.
Her words, not mine - “I am far more concerned with stepping on a used heroin needle than I am getting the coronavirus”.
Feel free to defend her for the the context in which she said it but then please admit she was completely discounting the virus.

Grandma wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 6:35 pm Gotcha!
I didn't say I wanted/wished her to step on a used heroin needle, I said it is time for her to step on one.
Her words, not mine - “I am far more concerned with stepping on a used heroin needle than I am getting the coronavirus”.
Feel free to defend her for the the context in which she said it but then please admit she was completely discounting the virus.

Sorry, I was not aware of the context. My bad.

TDub wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 4:58 pm

TraditionKU wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:09 pm

TDub wrote: ↑Fri Apr 10, 2020 9:46 pm Im not against infrastructure upgrades. There is not nearly as much infrastructure in rural America though so not sure how that helps job creation.


Wait, thats right. They should all strive to leave their small towns and be like all you big kids in the city. Everyone should bw forced to work in the city to survive and to be accepted by you as relevant non bubba individuals.

who said they have to move? nothing wrong with working on the road to make a living

Theres nothing wrong with working on the road. Theres nothing wrong with taking a local opportunity either. Thars my point. Youre not a dumbshit for staying local if it is available.

And I have never said that staying in a dying small town is wrong. But expecting other people to subsidize you and your community by locking people up, and doing that just to keep prison populations high enough to maintain jobs is flat out disgusting. Close some of those prisons in those dying towns and provide what people who get in trouble need, drug and alcohol treatment programs, year long halfway houses for those who require that. Close some of the juvenile facilities and convert them to drug treatment facilities, which are good in small towns, away from major population areas.

Figure out where to house the 297 prisoners over the age of 70 that are currently incarcerated in Oregon. The ones who can't get out because of the post-James Q. Wilson Ballot Measure 11.

But the staff qualifications for either of those might be a little different than your friends could tolerate.

twocoach wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 4:34 pm
Empty out some of those prisons and replace them with giant 3D printing shops so we don't have to rely on China for so many miscellaneous goods. Give more grants and scholarships to rural kids who want to reinvigorate their rural communities.

I love small town America; my Dad is from a town of less than a thousand in Eastern Kansas and our ancestral home he grew up in is still in our family. I want to see money spent to help those communities that doesn't require the excessive punishment of US citizens in order to generate that money.

Would think that after the Corona experience with trying to import drugs from other countries, that production of pharmaceuticals might also be something that we'd want to see money spent on in small town USA.

seahawk wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 8:04 pm

twocoach wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 4:34 pm
Empty out some of those prisons and replace them with giant 3D printing shops so we don't have to rely on China for so many miscellaneous goods. Give more grants and scholarships to rural kids who want to reinvigorate their rural communities.

I love small town America; my Dad is from a town of less than a thousand in Eastern Kansas and our ancestral home he grew up in is still in our family. I want to see money spent to help those communities that doesn't require the excessive punishment of US citizens in order to generate that money.

Would think that after the Corona experience with trying to import drugs from other countries, that production of pharmaceuticals might also be something that we'd want to see money spent on in small town USA.

That’s a great idea. Much more positive and productive than prisons.

seahawk wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 8:04 pm

twocoach wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 4:34 pm
Empty out some of those prisons and replace them with giant 3D printing shops so we don't have to rely on China for so many miscellaneous goods. Give more grants and scholarships to rural kids who want to reinvigorate their rural communities.

I love small town America; my Dad is from a town of less than a thousand in Eastern Kansas and our ancestral home he grew up in is still in our family. I want to see money spent to help those communities that doesn't require the excessive punishment of US citizens in order to generate that money.

Would think that after the Corona experience with trying to import drugs from other countries, that production of pharmaceuticals might also be something that we'd want to see money spent on in small town USA.

Chemical prisons instead of concrete prisons.

seahawk wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 7:40 pm

TDub wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 4:58 pm

TraditionKU wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:09 pm
who said they have to move? nothing wrong with working on the road to make a living

Theres nothing wrong with working on the road. Theres nothing wrong with taking a local opportunity either. Thars my point. Youre not a dumbshit for staying local if it is available.

But the staff qualifications for either of those might be a little different than your friends could tolerate.

There it is. Theres the holier than thou elitist bullshit attitude that you love. You dont know anything about me and you know less about my friends (all of these that we're talking about have college degrees minimum). Fuck you and that bullshit.

Quite often the staff of drug and alcohol rehab facilities that deal with people who run afoul of the law are those in recovery themselves. I don't think they consider themselves elitist, just sober.

seahawk wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 8:04 pm

twocoach wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 4:34 pm
Empty out some of those prisons and replace them with giant 3D printing shops so we don't have to rely on China for so many miscellaneous goods. Give more grants and scholarships to rural kids who want to reinvigorate their rural communities.

I love small town America; my Dad is from a town of less than a thousand in Eastern Kansas and our ancestral home he grew up in is still in our family. I want to see money spent to help those communities that doesn't require the excessive punishment of US citizens in order to generate that money.

Would think that after the Corona experience with trying to import drugs from other countries, that production of pharmaceuticals might also be something that we'd want to see money spent on in small town USA.

Unfortunately the reason it won’t/can’t happen is due to the cost structure. The margin for generic medicines are so low that it’s not sustainable even in rural America. The barrier to entry is not the issue. It’s more or less similar cost to set up a drug synthesis plant in the US as it is in India or China, or Eastern Europe. But the operating cost is 2-4x lower there, even at the really high end plants, mainly due to what is considered a living wage for skilled labor

TDub wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 5:01 pm
This argument isnt about prisons, it changed to become that seahawk chose to make it about that instead of defending her position that people who work in rural prisons are ill educated idiots. Bubba dumbfucks because they choose not to move to a city. Its not true.

I agree with you that Seahawk's post was a gross generalization of what is happening in small town America. But I do believe that the majority of the brightest, most talented kids in these areas are leaving to pursue larger opportunities. Not all, obviously, but a majority percentage. It has been happening since the GI Bill started offering to send the spouses and children of dead WWII soldiers to college. Even before that, the Depression sent people fleeing for larger cities in anywhere in America where they felt they could find work. There were simply more opportunities.

The GI Bill sent my grandmother from a tiny town in Southern Illinois to college at Southern Illinois University after my Grandpa died serving our country as a fighter pilot trainer. That gave her the skills to leave her small town and move to Denver. Then it sent my Mom to college at CU and then Kansas.

My Dad's father did the opposite and chose to come back to his tiny town in Kansas despite his undergrad degree from Kansas and a Masters from Harvard. But of his three children, the only one who didnt move away to a larger city was his only kid that didn't go to college and even he moved to the rural outskirts of Kansas City. Of that kid's four kids, the only smart one moved away and became a pharmacist. The other three are all educated to at most a high school level and are a rural postal carrier with a string of bad marriages, a handy man/construction worker who has his work opportunities limited by a collection of DUI's and a moron who moved to Vegas to be a poker player.

So of those three generations of my family from two different small towns, there is a grand total of one person left in those two original small towns and that was my aunt, who after moving away to go to KU, took early retirement from her job as a teacher in KC to move back home to the family farm to care for my grandparents and who is still staying in the family home waiting to die from the end stages of 50 years of smoking.

It doesn't feel like this life story is out of the ordinary. It feels like most really small (less that 1k) towns are facing the same issue with the last three generations of families.

zsn wrote: ↑Sun Apr 12, 2020 12:34 am

seahawk wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 8:04 pm

twocoach wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 4:34 pm
Empty out some of those prisons and replace them with giant 3D printing shops so we don't have to rely on China for so many miscellaneous goods. Give more grants and scholarships to rural kids who want to reinvigorate their rural communities.

I love small town America; my Dad is from a town of less than a thousand in Eastern Kansas and our ancestral home he grew up in is still in our family. I want to see money spent to help those communities that doesn't require the excessive punishment of US citizens in order to generate that money.

Would think that after the Corona experience with trying to import drugs from other countries, that production of pharmaceuticals might also be something that we'd want to see money spent on in small town USA.

Unfortunately the reason it won’t/can’t happen is due to the cost structure. The margin for generic medicines are so low that it’s not sustainable even in rural America. The barrier to entry is not the issue. It’s more or less similar cost to set up a drug synthesis plant in the US as it is in India or China, or Eastern Europe. But the operating cost is 2-4x lower there, even at the really high end plants, mainly due to what is considered a living wage for skilled labor

Yep. We simply cannot afford to pay American workers a low enough wage to make moving those jobs back to the US a serious option. There aren't enough people here willing to sacrifice enough to afford to live at those pay ranges. And that's before any adjustments to hike minimum wage by a decent percentage, which many at the pay scale claim needs to be done.