Page 60 of 90
Re: 2022-2023 Lineup
Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2022 2:55 pm
by CrimsonNBlue
twocoach wrote: ↑Fri Oct 21, 2022 2:31 pmYoung bigs always seem to take longer to be ready to play major rotation minutes under Self. It's just his system and what he asks of them, I suppose. It must just take longer for them to be able to get the reps needed to be trusted by Self and staff.
This keeps getting said, but I don't agree with it. I think it's much harder for guards/wings to grasp, especially now that we switch all screens out on the perimeter and we and other teams play 4+ perimeter players. We watch so many new guards get burned on defense. Selby instantly comes to mind. Remy and Yesefu last season. Grimes, etc.
I think what might be happening is that our bigs just tend to stay 3-4 seasons and our guards/wings are early NBA entrants. Plus so many of the guards/wings are just higher ranked recruits. So, while you have to play Quentin Grimes through his growing pains, you don't have to do that with Cliff Alexander or Cheick Diallo because we have veterans on the roster that are assignment sound. Mitch Lightfoot and Jamari getting minutes have this to thank.
Re: 2022-2023 Lineup
Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2022 2:59 pm
by MICHHAWK
upperclassmen are my favorite.
Re: 2022-2023 Lineup
Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2022 3:00 pm
by pdub
"I think what might be happening is that our bigs just tend to stay 3-4 seasons and our guards/wings are early NBA entrants."
Yes.
I think Self understands that bigs in college don't need to translate to the NBA for him to get what he needs from them in his system.
Also, upperclassmen are MICH's favorites.
Re: 2022-2023 Lineup
Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2022 3:04 pm
by AlOerter
CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Fri Oct 21, 2022 2:55 pm
twocoach wrote: ↑Fri Oct 21, 2022 2:31 pmYoung bigs always seem to take longer to be ready to play major rotation minutes under Self. It's just his system and what he asks of them, I suppose. It must just take longer for them to be able to get the reps needed to be trusted by Self and staff.
This keeps getting said, but I don't agree with it. I think it's much harder for guards/wings to grasp, especially now that we switch all screens out on the perimeter and we and other teams play 4+ perimeter players. We watch so many new guards get burned on defense. Selby instantly comes to mind. Remy and Yesefu last season. Grimes, etc.
I think what might be happening is that our bigs just tend to stay 3-4 seasons and our guards/wings are early NBA entrants. Plus so many of the guards/wings are just higher ranked recruits. So, while you have to play Quentin Grimes through his growing pains, you don't have to do that with Cliff Alexander or Cheick Diallo because we have veterans on the roster that are assignment sound. Mitch Lightfoot and Jamari getting minutes have this to thank.
Good points CNB. I think all young players have to work on the mental/basketball knowledge part. I also think athleticism plays a big role in early impact. Young bigs are often a little behind on the physical development, strength, and how to use their bodies aspect required for their position.
Re: 2022-2023 Lineup
Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2022 3:24 pm
by CrimsonNBlue
AlOerter wrote: ↑Fri Oct 21, 2022 3:04 pm
CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Fri Oct 21, 2022 2:55 pm
twocoach wrote: ↑Fri Oct 21, 2022 2:31 pmYoung bigs always seem to take longer to be ready to play major rotation minutes under Self. It's just his system and what he asks of them, I suppose. It must just take longer for them to be able to get the reps needed to be trusted by Self and staff.
This keeps getting said, but I don't agree with it. I think it's much harder for guards/wings to grasp, especially now that we switch all screens out on the perimeter and we and other teams play 4+ perimeter players. We watch so many new guards get burned on defense. Selby instantly comes to mind. Remy and Yesefu last season. Grimes, etc.
I think what might be happening is that our bigs just tend to stay 3-4 seasons and our guards/wings are early NBA entrants. Plus so many of the guards/wings are just higher ranked recruits. So, while you have to play Quentin Grimes through his growing pains, you don't have to do that with Cliff Alexander or Cheick Diallo because we have veterans on the roster that are assignment sound. Mitch Lightfoot and Jamari getting minutes have this to thank.
Good points CNB. I think all young players have to work on the mental/basketball knowledge part. I also think athleticism plays a big role in early impact. Young bigs are often a little behind on the physical development, strength, and how to use their bodies aspect required for their position.
Yes, great point about strength, that's also a big part of it. IIRC, the last frosh big to play key minutes for us was Silvio, and he was built like a brick shithouse. Bill Self has always, always wanted to be the tougher team in the paint. We learned that the hard way in 2001.
twocoach is also not necessarily wrong here, either, as Bill Self is a tough learning curve for ALL players. Cal runs and does simpler stuff because he always has freshmen.
Re: 2022-2023 Lineup
Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2022 3:37 pm
by pdub
"We learned that the hard way in 2001."
To be fair, that was against a classic justyouwaitansee roiboi squad that became studs in 2002 ( ugh Maryland, that was the actual championship game ) and 2003 ( Collison hit some free throws plz ).
Re: 2022-2023 Lineup
Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2022 5:46 pm
by AlOerter
One more question about the 5 spot. Who will develop a reliable jump-hook? It's hard to defend and is an easy bucket when you catch it deep. Seems like most of our starters at the 5 lately have had that in their repertoire.
Re: 2022-2023 Lineup
Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2022 6:38 pm
by pdub
This season?
Dunno if that’s there.
I don’t remember Clemence trying anything of the sort. Don’t think Udeh has that offensive skillset at all.
Re: 2022-2023 Lineup
Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2022 6:52 pm
by randylahey
MICHHAWK wrote: ↑Fri Oct 21, 2022 2:59 pm
upperclassmen are my favorite.
self's best teams are always loaded with upperclassman. no coincidence
Re: 2022-2023 Lineup
Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2022 6:54 pm
by randylahey
pdub wrote: ↑Fri Oct 21, 2022 6:38 pm
This season?
Dunno if that’s there.
I don’t remember Clemence trying anything of the sort. Don’t think Udeh has that offensive skillset at all.
Does Udeh even really have a skillset? seems like right now he is just big and really athletic. and learning to "actually" play the game. hopefully he gets some minutes learns quick and by the end of the season he can really help us
Re: 2022-2023 Lineup
Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2022 6:58 pm
by randylahey
pdub wrote: ↑Fri Oct 21, 2022 6:38 pm
This season?
Dunno if that’s there.
I don’t remember Clemence trying anything of the sort. Don’t think Udeh has that offensive skillset at all.
clemence has good touch. might be the best bet. but he don't wanna bang down low and get hook shots. pick and pop all day from that boy
Re: 2022-2023 Lineup
Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2022 11:00 pm
by Mjl
Over/Under
Cam Martin starts - 1.5
Jalen Wilson ppg - 15.0
Dajuan Harris 3pt% - 31%
KJ Adams mpg - 12
NCAa Tournament seed - 2.5
Re: 2022-2023 Lineup
Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2022 10:21 am
by TDub
over....but all early season
over ...but not by much 15.5 or so
over....only because the quantity will be low
over
under
Re: 2022-2023 Lineup
Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2022 10:43 am
by CrimsonNBlue
Have Cam down for exactly one start--early March.
I see 3-4 seed. I never know if that's considered over or under a 2.
Re: 2022-2023 Lineup
Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2022 10:58 am
by TDub
I think cam will start 2 or 3 games in November and then not play much, if at all, after December
Re: 2022-2023 Lineup
Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2022 10:59 am
by TDub
I think we scramble our way to a 2 seed
Re: 2022-2023 Lineup
Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2022 11:26 am
by CrimsonNBlue
TDub wrote: ↑Sat Oct 22, 2022 10:58 am
I think cam will start 2 or 3 games in November and then not play much, if at all, after December
Will just have to agree to disagree. I can't think of a single justification for playing Cam over Clemence or even KJ.
Re: 2022-2023 Lineup
Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2022 11:36 am
by TDub
CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Sat Oct 22, 2022 11:26 am
TDub wrote: ↑Sat Oct 22, 2022 10:58 am
I think cam will start 2 or 3 games in November and then not play much, if at all, after December
Will just have to agree to disagree. I can't think of a single justification for playing Cam over Clemence or even KJ.
Neither can I.....doesn't mean it won't happen.
Particulary if Clemence has issues or gets in Selfs doghouse.
Hes started a lot of random guys over the years as a form of motivation and/or sensing a message
Re: 2022-2023 Lineup
Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2022 11:59 am
by randylahey
KJ, Cam, Clemence, Ejiafor, and Udeh is a really really inexperienced group. 2 freshman. 2 sophomores that barely played as freshman. and Cam. I won't really be surprised by anything
technically Cam is the most experienced? 4 years on the court of college basketball. plus a redshirt year at kansas. but hasn't played a single minute of division 1 basketball yet
Re: 2022-2023 Lineup
Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2022 12:01 pm
by CrimsonNBlue
randylahey wrote: ↑Sat Oct 22, 2022 11:59 am
KJ, Cam, Clemence, Ejiafor, and Udeh is a really really inexperienced group. 2 freshman. 2 sophomores that barely played as freshman. and Cam. I won't really be surprised by anything
technically Cam is the most experienced? 4 years on the court of college basketball. plus a redshirt year at kansas. but hasn't played a single minute of division 1 basketball yet
IMO, Clemence and especially KJ are more experienced than Cam. Both frosh also have higher upside.