Re: COVID-19 - On the Ground
Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2022 12:32 pm
Bogeyman? Take it to the golf thread.
Among many others.
I had a history professor at KU explain Marxist Communism years ago. He maintained that it was a religion, not really a political or economic construct. In the last stage of "the revolution" the government would fade from power and the people would take communal ownership of property from the State and share equitably and there would be peace and heaven on earth. It assumes people are altruistic and that once having gotten power they would not use it for their personal gain. And after society was made "right", they would just relinquish power and wealth and property and become just another citizen. That stage of the revolutions never seems to be reached.ousdahl wrote: ↑Sun Jan 09, 2022 11:00 am maybe psych is right, and communism won't work because human nature. (covid response examples be damned)
but if communism won't work because human nature, then why the eff would we trust humans with a system like capitalism instead?
and yea, lots of people DO prooftext like that to mold the Bible to fit their preconceived notions. but, as zsn pointed out, that sort of thing applies at least as much to perpetuate homophobia, and misogyny, and other bass ackwards world views (not to mention the prosperity gospel type bullshit)
Cuz actually, the Bible is actually quite thorough and consistent in its messaging to condemn excessive wealth, and to support the impoverished and and vulnerable and oppressed. but only if you choose to read it that way.
heck, maybe it's Christianity that doesn't work because human nature won't let it work.
Yeah, don't, my life is great.
POTDjaphy wrote: ↑Sun Jan 09, 2022 1:24 pmI had a history professor at KU explain Marxist Communism years ago. He maintained that it was a religion, not really a political or economic construct. In the last stage of "the revolution" the government would fade from power and the people would take communal ownership of property from the State and share equitably and there would be peace and heaven on earth. It assumes people are altruistic and that once having gotten power they would not use it for their personal gain. And after society was made "right", they would just relinquish power and wealth and property and become just another citizen. That stage of the revolutions never seems to be reached.ousdahl wrote: ↑Sun Jan 09, 2022 11:00 am maybe psych is right, and communism won't work because human nature. (covid response examples be damned)
but if communism won't work because human nature, then why the eff would we trust humans with a system like capitalism instead?
and yea, lots of people DO prooftext like that to mold the Bible to fit their preconceived notions. but, as zsn pointed out, that sort of thing applies at least as much to perpetuate homophobia, and misogyny, and other bass ackwards world views (not to mention the prosperity gospel type bullshit)
Cuz actually, the Bible is actually quite thorough and consistent in its messaging to condemn excessive wealth, and to support the impoverished and and vulnerable and oppressed. but only if you choose to read it that way.
heck, maybe it's Christianity that doesn't work because human nature won't let it work.
Just a few more decades of the leaders making deals with Apple to produce iPhones and we will be there comrades! The Great Leap Forward is at hand!
A condo association is as close to communal property ownership as I have gotten and all I have to say about my 3 year interaction with the HOA is "fuck that". The person who aspires to be HOA president is likely a similar personality type that wants to be president of the US, and the people who you would least want to hold that kind of power.
But long before Marx, there were cultures based upon the concepts of communal property and equitable sharing of housing/food/water. Those were closer to the Marxist ideal than any modern country that ever called itself a communist nation. It was only possible because the idea of capitalism had never been introduced to them. Once Capitalism came to the Americas it was all downhill for the people who didn't understand the concepts. "Might is Right" and "Manifest Destiny" have ruled the day ever since. But that doesn't change the fact that it worked for hundreds of years.
But there isn't any reality based way to turn back the clock to "the good old days". And there never really was any good old days, as one groups good old days were another's bad old days.
I would agree with your professor’s statement that Marxism is a religion. That’s a large part of what makes it dangerous and untenable. Misplaced faith always leads somewhere bad.japhy wrote: ↑Sun Jan 09, 2022 1:24 pmI had a history professor at KU explain Marxist Communism years ago. He maintained that it was a religion, not really a political or economic construct. In the last stage of "the revolution" the government would fade from power and the people would take communal ownership of property from the State and share equitably and there would be peace and heaven on earth. It assumes people are altruistic and that once having gotten power they would not use it for their personal gain. And after society was made "right", they would just relinquish power and wealth and property and become just another citizen. That stage of the revolutions never seems to be reached.ousdahl wrote: ↑Sun Jan 09, 2022 11:00 am maybe psych is right, and communism won't work because human nature. (covid response examples be damned)
but if communism won't work because human nature, then why the eff would we trust humans with a system like capitalism instead?
and yea, lots of people DO prooftext like that to mold the Bible to fit their preconceived notions. but, as zsn pointed out, that sort of thing applies at least as much to perpetuate homophobia, and misogyny, and other bass ackwards world views (not to mention the prosperity gospel type bullshit)
Cuz actually, the Bible is actually quite thorough and consistent in its messaging to condemn excessive wealth, and to support the impoverished and and vulnerable and oppressed. but only if you choose to read it that way.
heck, maybe it's Christianity that doesn't work because human nature won't let it work.
Just a few more decades of the leaders making deals with Apple to produce iPhones and we will be there comrades! The Great Leap Forward is at hand!
A condo association is as close to communal property ownership as I have gotten and all I have to say about my 3 year interaction with the HOA is "fuck that". The person who aspires to be HOA president is likely a similar personality type that wants to be president of the US, and the people who you would least want to hold that kind of power.
But long before Marx, there were cultures based upon the concepts of communal property and equitable sharing of housing/food/water. Those were closer to the Marxist ideal than any modern country that ever called itself a communist nation. It was only possible because the idea of capitalism had never been introduced to them. Once Capitalism came to the Americas it was all downhill for the people who didn't understand the concepts. "Might is Right" and "Manifest Destiny" have ruled the day ever since. But that doesn't change the fact that it worked for hundreds of years.
But there isn't any reality based way to turn back the clock to "the good old days". And there never really was any good old days, as one groups good old days were another's bad old days.
I feel we are very close to a real breakthrough here. You and Oussie and DC and Feral should report to the Empire the week before Solstice. Defix and I will meet you at the mud huts. I will bring the psilocybin and Defix and I will be your guides. When dawn breaks we will all be sitting naked around a small greasewood fire holding hands and singing "This Land Is Your Land" together, in a round.JKLivin wrote: ↑Sun Jan 09, 2022 1:58 pmI would agree with your professor’s statement that Marxism is a religion. That’s a large part of what makes it dangerous and untenable. Misplaced faith always leads somewhere bad.japhy wrote: ↑Sun Jan 09, 2022 1:24 pmI had a history professor at KU explain Marxist Communism years ago. He maintained that it was a religion, not really a political or economic construct. In the last stage of "the revolution" the government would fade from power and the people would take communal ownership of property from the State and share equitably and there would be peace and heaven on earth. It assumes people are altruistic and that once having gotten power they would not use it for their personal gain. And after society was made "right", they would just relinquish power and wealth and property and become just another citizen. That stage of the revolutions never seems to be reached.ousdahl wrote: ↑Sun Jan 09, 2022 11:00 am maybe psych is right, and communism won't work because human nature. (covid response examples be damned)
but if communism won't work because human nature, then why the eff would we trust humans with a system like capitalism instead?
and yea, lots of people DO prooftext like that to mold the Bible to fit their preconceived notions. but, as zsn pointed out, that sort of thing applies at least as much to perpetuate homophobia, and misogyny, and other bass ackwards world views (not to mention the prosperity gospel type bullshit)
Cuz actually, the Bible is actually quite thorough and consistent in its messaging to condemn excessive wealth, and to support the impoverished and and vulnerable and oppressed. but only if you choose to read it that way.
heck, maybe it's Christianity that doesn't work because human nature won't let it work.
Just a few more decades of the leaders making deals with Apple to produce iPhones and we will be there comrades! The Great Leap Forward is at hand!
A condo association is as close to communal property ownership as I have gotten and all I have to say about my 3 year interaction with the HOA is "fuck that". The person who aspires to be HOA president is likely a similar personality type that wants to be president of the US, and the people who you would least want to hold that kind of power.
But long before Marx, there were cultures based upon the concepts of communal property and equitable sharing of housing/food/water. Those were closer to the Marxist ideal than any modern country that ever called itself a communist nation. It was only possible because the idea of capitalism had never been introduced to them. Once Capitalism came to the Americas it was all downhill for the people who didn't understand the concepts. "Might is Right" and "Manifest Destiny" have ruled the day ever since. But that doesn't change the fact that it worked for hundreds of years.
But there isn't any reality based way to turn back the clock to "the good old days". And there never really was any good old days, as one groups good old days were another's bad old days.
Because capitalism utilizes human nature whereas communism tries ( and fails) to push back against it.
Yeah . . . you lost me at "sitting naked".japhy wrote: ↑Sun Jan 09, 2022 2:50 pmI feel we are very close to a real breakthrough here. You and Oussie and DC and Feral should report to the Empire the week before Solstice. Defix and I will meet you at the mud huts. I will bring the psilocybin and Defix and I will be your guides. When dawn breaks we will all be sitting naked around a small greasewood fire holding hands and singing "This Land Is Your Land" together, in a round.JKLivin wrote: ↑Sun Jan 09, 2022 1:58 pmI would agree with your professor’s statement that Marxism is a religion. That’s a large part of what makes it dangerous and untenable. Misplaced faith always leads somewhere bad.japhy wrote: ↑Sun Jan 09, 2022 1:24 pm
I had a history professor at KU explain Marxist Communism years ago. He maintained that it was a religion, not really a political or economic construct. In the last stage of "the revolution" the government would fade from power and the people would take communal ownership of property from the State and share equitably and there would be peace and heaven on earth. It assumes people are altruistic and that once having gotten power they would not use it for their personal gain. And after society was made "right", they would just relinquish power and wealth and property and become just another citizen. That stage of the revolutions never seems to be reached.
Just a few more decades of the leaders making deals with Apple to produce iPhones and we will be there comrades! The Great Leap Forward is at hand!
A condo association is as close to communal property ownership as I have gotten and all I have to say about my 3 year interaction with the HOA is "fuck that". The person who aspires to be HOA president is likely a similar personality type that wants to be president of the US, and the people who you would least want to hold that kind of power.
But long before Marx, there were cultures based upon the concepts of communal property and equitable sharing of housing/food/water. Those were closer to the Marxist ideal than any modern country that ever called itself a communist nation. It was only possible because the idea of capitalism had never been introduced to them. Once Capitalism came to the Americas it was all downhill for the people who didn't understand the concepts. "Might is Right" and "Manifest Destiny" have ruled the day ever since. But that doesn't change the fact that it worked for hundreds of years.
But there isn't any reality based way to turn back the clock to "the good old days". And there never really was any good old days, as one groups good old days were another's bad old days.
not necessarily stone.....but beautiful.....