Kenosha

[japhy]

Has Candace Owens weighed in on this issue yet?

I think we should all consider the bright side here. A young trumpremacist white grievance cult member was on a trajectory to become a police officer. Another fearful trigger happy gun nut was headed towards qualified immunity.

A premature ejaculation of bullets has now rendered him useless as a weapon for the cult except as one of Tucker's talking point patriot martyrs. If only Kyle could have kept it in his pants for a couple more years this could have been legal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZaQqshZbtEQ

[ousdahl]

Is anyone else sorta concerned the kid will walk?

He gets some “stand your ground” defense and a jury full of lobsters - it’s not that hard to imagine, right?

But I think the fact he was unlawfully in possession of the gun in the first place makes a big difference. (Whoa, it’s almost like the kid with an assault rifle was looking for trouble all along?!?!?!)

But yeah, I don’t want to condone hitting someone with a skateboard, but also don’t think that warrants a death sentence - especially not by some punk ass kid right then and there in the streets.

[ousdahl]

And here’s another thing that almost deserves its own thread:

Can the powers that be, like, pretty pretty please, condemn these fucking militias?

The LAST thing we need right now is the system cozying up to a bunch of wannabe GI Joes playing war.

(Here’s your reminder that the second amendment mentions “well-regulated” and “necessary to the security of a free state” before it mentions anything about the right to bear arms.)

[Deleted User 289]

Add to that symbolism that apparently Jacob Blake is handcuffed to his hospital bed.

That right - they expect a paralyzed guy to run.

Most people have the same thought.
My thought is he's handcuffed because OTHERS can assist him in "escaping".

Ya the handcuffed to the bed outrage is over the top. He has/had felony warrants, right?

The cop who shot him 7 times in the back should also be in handcuffs though.

I'm not saying if I feel Blake should be in handcuffs or not - nor am I saying if I feel the cop should be in handcuffs - or not.
Why do YOU feel the cop should be in handcuffs?

[Deleted User 289]

The first shot came from the rioters. And then there was also the bomb they threw...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbsOIoq ... 1598595895

Why is this complicated for you?

This little fucking shit drove from Illinois with an assault rifle just to stir up trouble.

Exactly what I originally thought too - and a pretty basic assessment.
BUT..... Does this look like trouble?

[Deleted User 310]

Most people have the same thought.
My thought is he's handcuffed because OTHERS can assist him in "escaping".

Ya the handcuffed to the bed outrage is over the top. He has/had felony warrants, right?

The cop who shot him 7 times in the back should also be in handcuffs though.

I'm not saying if I feel Blake should be in handcuffs or not - nor am I saying if I feel the cop should be in handcuffs - or not.
Why do YOU feel the cop should be in handcuffs?

Because he followed a guy to his car and then shot him 7 times in that back?

I am not okay with policing in that fashion anymore. It can't be "i was scared he was going to grab a knife and somehow cause harm to me and my partner who both have guns". If 2 guys with guns cant keep themselves from being killed by 1 guy with a knife without shooting him in the back 7 times then those 2 guys shouldnt be police.

Was Blake wrong for resisting arrest? Absolutely.

Was Blake wrong for having or going to get a knife and maybe use it on police? Absolutely.

Should the police have shot him 7 times in the back at that point in the altercation? No.

Should the police have taken 5 steps back from him out of arms reach with a knife and waited to see what he was actually going to do? Yes.

Police need to stop assuming what people are going to do. They have shown that they aren't great mind readers too often. There is risk associated with their job. I don't want them to let themselves get killed....but i also dont think they can kill or shoot people whenever they feel slightly threatened and use "feared for life" as an excuse to be judge/jury/executioner.

[sdoyel]

How (in 3 minutes time) does a situation escalate to the point of shooting a man in the back 7 times?

3. Minutes.

[seahawk]

This kid is a murderer who came to the demonstration to kill someone and be able to justify it, because he likely knew what the local sheriff and PD chief felt, which is that murdering people is okay--if they're black. Because the kid is young, he was maybe too stupid to realize that shooting white people, even ones with some arrest history, doesn't work so well.

[sdoyel]

The first shot came from the rioters. And then there was also the bomb they threw...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbsOIoq ... 1598595895

Why is this complicated for you?

This little fucking shit drove from Illinois with an assault rifle just to stir up trouble.

Exactly what I originally thought too - and a pretty basic assessment.
BUT..... Does this look like trouble?

I believe I saw someone say on Twitter that Dylan Roof went to bible study with church members before murdering them???...

[Deleted User 310]

The first shot came from the rioters. And then there was also the bomb they threw...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbsOIoq ... 1598595895

Why is this complicated for you?

This little fucking shit drove from Illinois with an assault rifle just to stir up trouble.

Exactly what I originally thought too - and a pretty basic assessment.
BUT..... Does this look like trouble?

Nope. It looks like a kid who thought he was doing something patriotic. Unfortunately it ended with him killing 2 people unnecessarily. He should have stuck to cleaning graffiti and not playing law enforcement on the streets of an intense situation.

Reports are that prior to the shooting, earlier in the night, he was assisting protestors with his medical kit who had been pepper sprayed/etc, and handing out water to protestors and cops.....also should have stuck to that and not been carrying a rifle. He wouldnt be in jail and 2 others would still be alive.

[sdoyel]

And here’s another thing that almost deserves its own thread:

Can the powers that be, like, pretty pretty please, condemn these fucking militias?

The LAST thing we need right now is the system cozying up to a bunch of wannabe GI Joes playing war.

(Here’s your reminder that the second amendment mentions “well-regulated” and “necessary to the security of a free state” before it mentions anything about the right to bear arms.)

Thank you.

I feel the same. Since when do we need a wanna-be militia nosing their way into some trouble? Stay the f out of it.

[Deleted User 310]

This kid is a murderer who came to the demonstration to kill someone and be able to justify it, because he likely knew what the local sheriff and PD chief felt, which is that murdering people is okay--if they're black. Because the kid is young, he was maybe too stupid to realize that shooting white people, even ones with some arrest history, doesn't work so well.

I thought his intention was to kill as well initially. But as more facts come out, i dont think that was his ONLY intention. I think it was something that he knew had the potential to happen (otherwise he wouldnt have been carrying a loaded rifle), but i think he thought he was going there to protect people (protestors and cops). Unfortunately he was wrong in his assessment, both of that he was needed (he wasnt), and that he was capable of navigating a situation as complex and intense and this one (he wasn't).

[sdoyel]

There's a meme going around Facebook with a picture and caption that reads: "For those sharing pictures of Kyle Rittenhouse cleaning up graffiti, here’s Ted Bundy washing dishes."

[Deleted User 310]

And here’s another thing that almost deserves its own thread:

Can the powers that be, like, pretty pretty please, condemn these fucking militias?

The LAST thing we need right now is the system cozying up to a bunch of wannabe GI Joes playing war.

(Here’s your reminder that the second amendment mentions “well-regulated” and “necessary to the security of a free state” before it mentions anything about the right to bear arms.)

Thank you.

I feel the same. Since when do we need a wanna-be militia nosing their way into some trouble? Stay the f out of it.

Agreed. Especially when at the very worst businesses were going to be burned down. If the protestors were killing people/cops in the street (they weren't) and people needed the assistance of a militia because the cops were outmanned and outgunned (highly unlikely) then i would maybe feel differently.

[twocoach]

Why is this complicated for you?

This little fucking shit drove from Illinois with an assault rifle just to stir up trouble.

Exactly what I originally thought too - and a pretty basic assessment.
BUT..... Does this look like trouble?

I believe I saw someone say on Twitter that Dylan Roof went to bible study with church members before murdering them???...

And the BTK serial killer was a youth pastor.

Even bad people do some good things. Rarely are people 100% wholesome or 100% evil.

[twocoach]

This kid is a murderer who came to the demonstration to kill someone and be able to justify it, because he likely knew what the local sheriff and PD chief felt, which is that murdering people is okay--if they're black. Because the kid is young, he was maybe too stupid to realize that shooting white people, even ones with some arrest history, doesn't work so well.

I thought his intention was to kill as well initially. But as more facts come out, i dont think that was his ONLY intention. I think it was something that he knew had the potential to happen (otherwise he wouldnt have been carrying a loaded rifle), but i think he thought he was going there to protect people (protestors and cops). Unfortunately he was wrong in his assessment, both of that he was needed (he wasnt), and that he was capable of navigating a situation as complex and intense and this one (he wasn't).

This is what happens when you mix indoctrination with propaganda and fear and then arm it with a deadly weapon and send it into the middle of a crisis completely untrained to handle the crisis.

[Deleted User 310]

This kid is a murderer who came to the demonstration to kill someone and be able to justify it, because he likely knew what the local sheriff and PD chief felt, which is that murdering people is okay--if they're black. Because the kid is young, he was maybe too stupid to realize that shooting white people, even ones with some arrest history, doesn't work so well.

I thought his intention was to kill as well initially. But as more facts come out, i dont think that was his ONLY intention. I think it was something that he knew had the potential to happen (otherwise he wouldnt have been carrying a loaded rifle), but i think he thought he was going there to protect people (protestors and cops). Unfortunately he was wrong in his assessment, both of that he was needed (he wasnt), and that he was capable of navigating a situation as complex and intense and this one (he wasn't).

This is what happens when you mix indoctrination with propaganda and fear and then arm it with a deadly weapon and send it into the middle of a crisis completely untrained to handle the crisis.

Agreed.

And that also goes for the guy who attacked him with a skateboard and the guy who he shot who had a handgun.

[Deleted User 289]

Ya the handcuffed to the bed outrage is over the top. He has/had felony warrants, right?

The cop who shot him 7 times in the back should also be in handcuffs though.

I'm not saying if I feel Blake should be in handcuffs or not - nor am I saying if I feel the cop should be in handcuffs - or not.
Why do YOU feel the cop should be in handcuffs?

Because he followed a guy to his car and then shot him 7 times in that back?

I am not okay with policing in that fashion anymore. It can't be "i was scared he was going to grab a knife and somehow cause harm to me and my partner who both have guns". If 2 guys with guns cant keep themselves from being killed by 1 guy with a knife without shooting him in the back 7 times then those 2 guys shouldnt be police.

Was Blake wrong for resisting arrest? Absolutely.

Was Blake wrong for having or going to get a knife and maybe use it on police? Absolutely.

Should the police have shot him 7 times in the back at that point in the altercation? No.

Should the police have taken 5 steps back from him out of arms reach with a knife and waited to see what he was actually going to do? Yes.

Police need to stop assuming what people are going to do. They have shown that they aren't great mind readers too often. There is risk associated with their job. I don't want them to let themselves get killed....but i also dont think they can kill or shoot people whenever they feel slightly threatened and use "feared for life" as an excuse to be judge/jury/executioner.

Not disagreeing with you.
Just providing "rebuttal" that either I feel/believe or I think others would/might feel/believe.

Big difference between simply saying - "he followed a guy to his car and then shot him 7 times in that back" and saying, "the guy had a history and the police knew it, they attempted to subdue him - unsuccessfully, they ordered him to stop/freeze and he ignored them, he may have had a knife in his hand, he may have threatened to harm his children who were in the car (I haven't heard this theory but it is a possible one), he may have been reaching for a gun (I haven't heard this theory either - but again, it's a possible one) and the cop felt the best course of action was to incapacitate the man, and that was what he felt was his best option at the time".

I'm not ok with it either but we are playing "what if". None of us know what may or may not have occurred if he had a gun in the car - and used it. OR if he didn't have a gun in the car and what would have happened if the cop did NOT shoot him. We know facts but assumptions are prevalent.

I feel Blake was wrong for resisting arrest.
I feel Blake WOULD have been wrong IF he had a knife and didn't drop it.
I feel the police should not have shot him 7 times in the back but I also feel he would not have been shot in the back if he didn't "resist" the police.
I do NOT feel the police should have taken 5 steps back from him out of arms reach with a knife and waited to see what he was actually going to do. He had already disobeyed them multiple times in multiple manners.
I feel there was a fine line for the cops in this situation. Possibly (probably?) a lose lose situation for them.

I disagree that Police need to stop assuming what people are going to do.
Forgetting Jacob Blake, I feel the police need to "assume" anything and everything in a situation.
If not assume, "assess" what may or may not happen.

I agree 100% that they have shown they are not great mind readers but it comes as part of the job. They have to at least try to read minds while they make their decisions on how to act - or not act.

I will never even pretend to know what I would do in a POSSIBLE live or die / react or don't react police situation - if I was a cop.
What I do know is that if I was a cop I would realize I am responsible for protecting citizens and the laws that have been written. Normally I think of myself as someone who errors on the side of caution. While I might think that's a good way for cops to adhere to, maybe it's not and how do they determine what is being cautious and what is not?
What I think is difficult for cops to assess in the moment is - are my actions only going to affect this situation or will they also affect the aftermath?
Right or wrong, I believe SOME cops are letting "bad guys" go simply because they themselves don't want to face the aftermath and they also don't want to be the one who instigates/initiates how others will respond.
Right or wrong, I also believe more people hate Chauvin because of the aftermath than they do because he "killed" Floyd.

[twocoach]

I thought his intention was to kill as well initially. But as more facts come out, i dont think that was his ONLY intention. I think it was something that he knew had the potential to happen (otherwise he wouldnt have been carrying a loaded rifle), but i think he thought he was going there to protect people (protestors and cops). Unfortunately he was wrong in his assessment, both of that he was needed (he wasnt), and that he was capable of navigating a situation as complex and intense and this one (he wasn't).

This is what happens when you mix indoctrination with propaganda and fear and then arm it with a deadly weapon and send it into the middle of a crisis completely untrained to handle the crisis.

Agreed.

And that also goes for the guy who attacked him with a skateboard and the guy who he shot who had a handgun.

Eh, I dont know if I qualify the skateboard guy as that. Going after a guy with a gun running away from the scene of a shooting with people shouting "he just shot someone" would lead to him being heralded as a hero in many scenarios.

[Deleted User 289]

This kid is a murderer who came to the demonstration to kill someone and be able to justify it, because he likely knew what the local sheriff and PD chief felt, which is that murdering people is okay--if they're black. Because the kid is young, he was maybe too stupid to realize that shooting white people, even ones with some arrest history, doesn't work so well.

I agree that the kid is indeed a murderer.
After that, I feel the rest of your sentence is narish.
YOU are making ASSUMPTIONS.
Your last sentence, much of it very possibly true and the last part - spot on.