Kansas Crimson

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:51 am I think it was illy that said Oubre's trade would show that he's better than Wiggins.

Again, goes back to the "Wiggins hasn't played like some other #1 picks, therefore he's terrible."

Yeah, he hasn't played like LeBron or Tim Duncan so he's terrible.

He also hasn't played like Fultz, or Bennett, or Oden or Kwami Brown.

Now that we've seen a little bit, I think I might feel better about giving Wiggins a max over Ben Simmons.

Tangent: saw that Fultz blew his ACL and is done for year. He was starting to figure it out a bit.

Embiid, though. Same draft as Wiggins and is a legit contender for MVP right now.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:03 pm Embiid, though. Same draft as Wiggins and is a legit contender for MVP right now.

Yeah. But one of the things the Anti-Wiggins crowd brings up is that Wiggins is inconsistent and doesn't bring it every single night. It's possible that Embiid may be more guilty of that than Wiggins.

Embiid probably a little spooked to go all out every night, but a lot of it is growing out of the class-clown role.

I'm not throwing Embiid under the bus.

Just pointing out that many hold Wiggins to an impossible standard while overlooking many of the same flaws on other former KU players.

I always think it's interesting that KU fans just gloss over the fact that Embiid sat the tournament out when cleared to play.

That would get Wiggins and most any other KU/college athlete roasted by several board members and other KU fans.

Did we know that at the time? That Embiid was cleared but sat out anyway. I’ve heard it plenty after the fact, but don’t remember a contemporaneous story.

And honestly, if Wiggins had sat out the tournament purely for individual economic reasons (not risking an injury that might blow his draft spot), I think that’s different than just going through his career on cruise control.

I mean heck, at least he would have shown he cared about something.

Perfect response.



But, yes, we knew at the time that Joel and his USA handler said no way to playing. And, it was smart. Just like it was smart for Christian McCaffrey to sit out and just like it was smart for those Florida football players to sit out against OU. But, according to the football board, all of those guys, Embiid included, should have to pay back their scholarships.

And according to at least one response on the football bored, it would make a lot more sense to expect student ath-o-letes to pay it back if they were compensated like normal adults in the first place.

Games played 1/7/21

Embiid - 30 min, 7-14 fg, 2-2 3pt, 12 reb, 3 ast, 1 blk, 5 to, 20 points
MCMorris - 13 min, 0-0 fg, 3 reb, 0 points

To PhD’s point yesterday, 6ers losing to a KD and Kyrie-less Nets and Joel only taking 14 shots is not good enough from him.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:51 am I think it was illy that said Oubre's trade would show that he's better than Wiggins.

Again, goes back to the "Wiggins hasn't played like some other #1 picks, therefore he's terrible."

Oubre is shooting the worst he has in his entire career. They're only 8 games into the season. He is going to end up close to his career averages by the end of the season and his stats will look a lot better.

I don't necessarily think Oubre is "better" than Wiggins. They're different. Wiggins mainly impacts the game in one area and that is scoring. He also has shown an ability to block some shots.

Oubre impacts the game in multiple ways that don't always show up in a box score.

Wiggins is always going to get his points. By the end of the year i would guess Oubre will be averaging closer to 15ppg rather than the 10ppg he is averaging shooting 14% from 3.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:03 pm Embiid, though. Same draft as Wiggins and is a legit contender for MVP right now.

Embiid is having a good start to the season. Playing in all but 1 game so far is very encouraging. He still doesn't always play hard 100% of the time but it isn't hard to imagine why that is at his size.

Legit MVP contender? Probably not. Hard to get into that conversation when a guy like Jokic who plays the same position is averaging a triple double with 26/11/11. Then you've got LeBron averaging 24/8/8. Doncic averaging 27/9/8. Hell, even Julius Randle is averaging 23/12/7. That's not even mentioning Harden's 29/11 or Giannis 26/11/5. Westbrook at 20/11/12 is impressive statistically but his team is awful (i think Beal may be leading the league in scoring, but haven't looked).

My early season MVP race rankings would be:
1) Jokic
2) Luka
3) Giannis
Then everyone else.

It is insane how stacked the league is right now. If Embiid can make 2nd or 3rd team all NBA this season that's a hell of an accomplishment. It's early, but there are some guys playing incredible this year so far.

Last 1....

Graham: he is in a bit of a weird spot suddenly. He hasn't shot the ball very well yet this year (although he has looked good in the first half tonight). And Lamelo is a lot better than i expected, so now they're log jammed at PG with those 2 and Rozier (not to mention Hayward is capable of operating as a main facilitor as well due to his passing ability and ability to get to the basket and draw attention from defenses).

I know someone mentioned that Charlotte would move Rozier before Graham. And in a perfect world i would probably agree due to the differences in contracts. Maybe they keep all 3 and find a way to play them all together with Hayward and PJ Washington. But i think Graham would get more value on the trade market than Rozier (if they can make the money work). Might be best for both parties in the end. 3 months ago i would've laughed if someone told me Lamelo might be better than Graham (or just that Lamelo would be this good already in general).

It'll be interesting to see how it plays out for Charlotte this year. Slow start at 3-5 (and probably going to lose tonight), but they don't look that bad when i have watched them.

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 7:45 pm

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:51 am I think it was illy that said Oubre's trade would show that he's better than Wiggins.

Again, goes back to the "Wiggins hasn't played like some other #1 picks, therefore he's terrible."

Oubre is shooting the worst he has in his entire career. They're only 8 games into the season. He is going to end up close to his career averages by the end of the season and his stats will look a lot better.

I don't necessarily think Oubre is "better" than Wiggins. They're different. Wiggins mainly impacts the game in one area and that is scoring. He also has shown an ability to block some shots.

Oubre impacts the game in multiple ways that don't always show up in a box score.

Wiggins is always going to get his points. By the end of the year i would guess Oubre will be averaging closer to 15ppg rather than the 10ppg he is averaging shooting 14% from 3.

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 7:58 pm

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:03 pm Embiid, though. Same draft as Wiggins and is a legit contender for MVP right now.

Embiid is having a good start to the season. Playing in all but 1 game so far is very encouraging. He still doesn't always play hard 100% of the time but it isn't hard to imagine why that is at his size.

Legit MVP contender? Probably not. Hard to get into that conversation when a guy like Jokic who plays the same position is averaging a triple double with 26/11/11. Then you've got LeBron averaging 24/8/8. Doncic averaging 27/9/8. Hell, even Julius Randle is averaging 23/12/7. That's not even mentioning Harden's 29/11 or Giannis 26/11/5. Westbrook at 20/11/12 is impressive statistically but his team is awful (i think Beal may be leading the league in scoring, but haven't looked).

My early season MVP race rankings would be:
1) Jokic
2) Luka
3) Giannis
Then everyone else.

It is insane how stacked the league is right now. If Embiid can make 2nd or 3rd team all NBA this season that's a hell of an accomplishment. It's early, but there are some guys playing incredible this year so far.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/friv/mvp.html

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:23 pm

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 7:58 pm

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:03 pm Embiid, though. Same draft as Wiggins and is a legit contender for MVP right now.

Embiid is having a good start to the season. Playing in all but 1 game so far is very encouraging. He still doesn't always play hard 100% of the time but it isn't hard to imagine why that is at his size.

Legit MVP contender? Probably not. Hard to get into that conversation when a guy like Jokic who plays the same position is averaging a triple double with 26/11/11. Then you've got LeBron averaging 24/8/8. Doncic averaging 27/9/8. Hell, even Julius Randle is averaging 23/12/7. That's not even mentioning Harden's 29/11 or Giannis 26/11/5. Westbrook at 20/11/12 is impressive statistically but his team is awful (i think Beal may be leading the league in scoring, but haven't looked).

My early season MVP race rankings would be:
1) Jokic
2) Luka
3) Giannis
Then everyone else.

It is insane how stacked the league is right now. If Embiid can make 2nd or 3rd team all NBA this season that's a hell of an accomplishment. It's early, but there are some guys playing incredible this year so far.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/friv/mvp.html

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nba.co ... on%3famp=1

(Excuse their typo saying 2019-2020 race, it's the first ranking of the year and they missed that when updating their template).

https://www.google.com/amp/s/hoopshype. ... curry/amp/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/dknation.d ... teph-curry

Everyone has an opinion. Lots of different ones at this point based on what you posted and the 3 links above. I gave mine based on what i have seen.

The current vegas odds i see are Embiid +1000 behind Luka +400, Giannis +450, and KD +800...but slightly ahead of Lebron & Jokic at +1200

Like i said, encouraging start to the season for Embiid. Certainly not implying it hasn't been. But i don't see him finishing top 5 in the MVP race.

Illy’s back!

Nice to see Benny Mac is back.
Dok's per 48 was fantastic last night in terms of scoring.

Games played 1/8/21

MKMorris - 29 min, 5-8 fg, 1-3 3pt, 6 reb, 1 blk, 11 points
Jackson - 19 min, 2-11 fg, 1-5 3pt, 2 reb, 1 stl, 5 points
Svi - 17 min, 2-9 fg, 2-8 3pt, 1 ast, 1 stl, 6 points
Graham - 37 min, 5-13 fg, 2-8 3pt, 6 reb, ast, 1 to, 17 points
McLemore - 16 min, 5-6 fg, 5-5 3pt, 3 reb, 2 ast, 1 stl, 15 points
Dok - 1 min, 1-1 fg, 2 points
MCMorris - 18 min, 1-7 fg, 0-2 3pt, 2 reb, 1 ast, 2 points
Wiggins - 28 min, 5-10 fg, 2-5 3pt, 6 reb, 1 ast, 1 stl, 1 blk, 16 points
Oubre - 21 min, 2-7 fg, 0-3 3pt, 5 reb, 1 stl, 6 points