Kansas Crimson

ousdahl wrote: ↑Thu Jun 24, 2021 4:52 pm Yeah, Och has never been one to get the ball and just instinctively go downhill with it.

It's impossible to in this setting anyway. CnB points it out above, and tbh playing like that (the ball hog drive into traffic and hope for the best that this specific has consisted of a ton) does nothing to help most of these guys draft position...i think that's part of the reason why historically a lot of the top guys opt out of the scrimmages.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Thu Jun 24, 2021 4:54 pm Och's team has basically been whoever is lucky enough to get the ball passed to them when it crosses half court, they are going to the rack and we get a foul or turnover.

Ya. It's ugly. Can't imagine these guys are helping their stock by playing that way.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Thu Jun 24, 2021 4:51 pm Grimes stroke looks good but he still doesn't look athletic. That will be an issue on defense.

Och has been good on D. Hasn't had much of a chance to attack--could also pin some of that on him.

Interesting, my takeaway was the opposite, I thought his D was surprisingly terrible, not playing team defense at all. Maybe because they aren't an actual team, and maybe if I had watched everyone as much as I watched Ochai I would have seen the same thing.

But my takeaway was that I came away with more hope he'd be back than before watching. He's like a 3 and D guy who showed neither.

Team defense, lol.

I thought he slid his feet well, didn't lose his man, blocked a shot or two, and generally just did not get beat or look out of place against guys that are similarly talented/athletic.

The guy I thought that looked too out of place was Marcus Zegarowski. Kind of surprised.

Like, that may have been a case of carrying a large load on a team with no NBA talent. If you're small, you better be really good or really athletic/strong or both, and he looked like the last guy you pick at the YMCA.

Och just cannot get past anyone.

Dang.

He seems athletic enough, right? Is it more a skill/technique thing? He’s gotta learn his timing and angles and stuff?

ousdahl wrote: ↑Fri Jun 25, 2021 2:33 pm Dang.

He seems athletic enough, right? Is it more a skill/technique thing? He’s gotta learn his timing and angles and stuff?

Jumping high and being quick enough to get past someone are different things. People tend to equate jumping high with athleticism in basketball. I never understood that.

Yes, on that being Och's athleticism.

But ability to play above the rim is really significant. Shooting over defenders, 50/50 balls, defense/weak-side D, etc. Absolutely a factor.

I think Och is plenty athletic, in terms of not just jumping but also balance, coordination, moving feet, general fast twitch, etc.

That’s why I said I think his inability to get past guys off the dribble is more a skill/technique/timing/angles thing.

Heck, Jalen can barely jump over his own shoelaces, and he’s better off the dribble than Och.

IMO, his feet look pretty good on defense and sliding, but he has no first step on offense. I do think that's a genetics over skill thing.

He moves pretty well off the ball--seems smooth, but that's more skill.

given his other physical attributes, one would think that he’d be doing the kinds of things that improve that kind of explosiveness...maybe he has maxed out in that category

Won't be a big deal if he can shoot more consistently. I don't think he can make a wrong decision here. He kind of is what he is, but he still hasn't had a normal season yet.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Fri Jun 25, 2021 2:44 pm Yes, on that being Och's athleticism.

But ability to play above the rim is really significant. Shooting over defenders, 50/50 balls, defense/weak-side D, etc. Absolutely a factor.

Totally agree.

ousdahl wrote: ↑Fri Jun 25, 2021 2:50 pm I think Och is plenty athletic, in terms of not just jumping but also balance, coordination, moving feet, general fast twitch, etc.

That’s why I said I think his inability to get past guys off the dribble is more a skill/technique/timing/angles thing.

Heck, Jalen can barely jump over his own shoelaces, and he’s better off the dribble than Och.

Jalen was also being guarded by slower 4s a lot of the time, so i think that is why you have this (possibly false) perception.

Now that I am getting my hopes up for Ochai to come back...

Martin
Yesufu
Ochai
Wilson
McCormack

That's the best offensive lineup in the country next year, easily. I mean, Wilson is probably the worst of those five on offense, which is crazy.

Not sure how anyone would want to draft anyone on Och's team.

Possibly.

Driving is a much bigger part of Jalen’s game than Och’s either way.

Heck, Jalen looks more comfortable grabbing a bored and pushing the break than Och, no?

I think Och’s lack of driving has a lot to do with his general lack of handles. He dribbles more high and away from his body, as opposed to keeping it lower and tighter.

Between that, and he lacks the instinct to read an angle, or to give a little head fake or something to get his guy off balance, I think is why he’s not very good at driving

Mjl wrote: ↑Fri Jun 25, 2021 3:10 pm Now that I am getting my hopes up for Ochai to come back...

Martin
Yesufu
Ochai
Wilson
McCormack

That's the best offensive lineup in the country next year, easily. I mean, Wilson is probably the worst of those five on offense, which is crazy.

I’m curious whether moving Och to the 3 would afford some Selden-like bump in production.

I’m also curious whether there’s really that much difference between a 2 and 3 any more

ousdahl wrote: ↑Fri Jun 25, 2021 3:40 pm

Mjl wrote: ↑Fri Jun 25, 2021 3:10 pm Now that I am getting my hopes up for Ochai to come back...

Martin
Yesufu
Ochai
Wilson
McCormack

That's the best offensive lineup in the country next year, easily. I mean, Wilson is probably the worst of those five on offense, which is crazy.

I’m curious whether moving Och to the 3 would afford some Selden-like bump in production.

I’m also curious whether there’s really that much difference between a 2 and 3 any more

Has there ever been a difference in Self's offenses?