Kansas Crimson

TDub wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 7:22 am https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/22/us/calif ... index.html

Piracy on (for) the high leaves

i tried to tell y’all years ago...water wars are gonna be a thing

nobody wanted to listen

I mustve missed those convos because ive said that for several years too. Anytime you have an increasingly valuable finite resource its gonna cause conflict at some point.

Really need to make desalination more efficient. Then california can supply itself and perhaps repay nevada and aizona and colorado can keep its rivers up

and then maybe northern mexico won’t continuously get the short end of the water stick

desalination would be great...but seriously, people just need start rethinking resource use

same for carbon-capture technology

same with most pharmaceuticals

treating the symptoms is only putting a bandaid on the problem. in order the affect real, lasting change we have to alter the root of the problem. otherwise, we’re really just kicking the can down the street for future generations to tackle

i guess maybe i shouldn’t care, since i don’t have kids

There’s a lot of progress on making desalination efficient especially with advances in renewable energy and advanced materials. However it tends to be more local and requires a lot of work to move the water from coastal areas (source of saline water) to higher altitudes (points of consumption). But addressing consumption should be a major factor

The role of climate change in all of this cannot be ignored at least for the West. The ice/snow pack is a natural dam providing storage for the water without any additional effort. The melt used to provide water well into July. My cousin sent a picture of Mt Shasta about a few weeks ago. I’ve never seen the top without snow cover, even in September!! Now nothing….in June

I would argue most of the water consumption is at the coast where most of the population lives and that if we could supply the coast with water then the higher altitude people would be fine as their supply is sufficient without the decimation by the requirements of the coastal cities.

So desalination would solve lots of those issues.

How feasible is it to do desalination for a city the size of LA?

are you considering the Central Valley as part of the coast?

are you intentionally leaving out Vegas? Phoenix? SLC? Albuquerque?

or are you just talking about the Colorado? aquifers?

one aspect of this that gets left out is relative soil moisture

droughts, coupled with direct exposure to the sun and wind, lower the moisture content resulting in two things: the need for more watering of both agricultural and landscaping (resulting in excess depletion of aquifers and reserve); and a lowering of absorptive capability of the soil (counterintuitive, i know), which means than what precipitation that does fall, doesn’t get absorbed, but instead washes downslope

add to that the impact of reduced ground cover due to fires, and you get increased mud/land slides and flash floods

jhawks99 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 10:16 am How feasible is it to do desalination for a city the size of LA?

Qatar is a good way to approximate scale and cost. I think all of the potable water for a country of 3 million people comes from desalination.

Thanks Japhy, I wasn't aware that it could be done on that scale.

TDub wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 10:09 am I would argue most of the water consumption is at the coast where most of the population lives and that if we could supply the coast with water then the higher altitude people would be fine as their supply is sufficient without the decimation by the requirements of the coastal cities.

So desalination would solve lots of those issues.

Assuming they solve the issues of desalination (massive amounts of fossil fuel-based energy required to run, impact to sea life at water input source, what to do with ultra-salty brine wastewater besides releasing it back into the ocean)

https://www.mercurynews.com/2014/05/29/ ... nia-coast/

... Desalinated water typically costs about $2,000 an acre foot — roughly the amount of water a family of five uses in a year. The cost is about double that of water obtained from building a new reservoir or recycling wastewater, according to a 2013 study from the state Department of Water Resources...

https://kqed.org/science/28668/why-isnt ... r-problems

again, desalination just isn’t, and won’t ever be, some magic bullet to solve this problem

if you bring water stability to coastal Cali, don’t you think it’ll just entice more immigration to the region?

No its not. Vut it can get more efficient. Its also probably more realistic than relocating 40 million people and/or living with no water...which is where its headed

the relocation has already started...voluntarily

the number of Cali transplants in the Heber/Park City area is absurd. some are Silicon Valley, but not all

all i’m saying is that people’s behavior MUST change in certain parts of this country, regardless of technological innovation

behavior can change much more rapidly than technological advances and related infrastructure can be built, and with relatively minuscule related costs

TraditionKU wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 10:25 am one aspect of this that gets left out is relative soil moisture

droughts, coupled with direct exposure to the sun and wind, lower the moisture content resulting in two things: the need for more watering of both agricultural and landscaping (resulting in excess depletion of aquifers and reserve); and a lowering of absorptive capability of the soil (counterintuitive, i know), which means than what precipitation that does fall, doesn’t get absorbed, but instead washes downslope

add to that the impact of reduced ground cover due to fires, and you get increased mud/land slides and flash floods

Ive beat this horse to death to no avail...but increased grazing improves all of those things.

Brush management
Ripped/torn vegetation regrows at a faster rate
Fertilization and nitrogren
Millions of hoof prints act as mini ponds and hold water for better absorption
Hoofs break up the hardened soil to improve absorption.

TDub wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 11:03 am

TraditionKU wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 10:25 am one aspect of this that gets left out is relative soil moisture

droughts, coupled with direct exposure to the sun and wind, lower the moisture content resulting in two things: the need for more watering of both agricultural and landscaping (resulting in excess depletion of aquifers and reserve); and a lowering of absorptive capability of the soil (counterintuitive, i know), which means than what precipitation that does fall, doesn’t get absorbed, but instead washes downslope

add to that the impact of reduced ground cover due to fires, and you get increased mud/land slides and flash floods

Ive beat this horse to death to no avail...but increased grazing improves all of those things.

Brush management
Ripped/torn vegetation regrows at a faster rate
Fertilization and nitrogren
Millions of hoof prints act as mini ponds and hold water for better absorption
Hoofs break up the hardened soil to improve absorption.

increased grazing isn’t the answer, but we’re not going to agree on that so i’ll step away from this discussion if that’s where this is going

TraditionKU wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 11:20 am

TDub wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 11:03 am

TraditionKU wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 10:25 am one aspect of this that gets left out is relative soil moisture

droughts, coupled with direct exposure to the sun and wind, lower the moisture content resulting in two things: the need for more watering of both agricultural and landscaping (resulting in excess depletion of aquifers and reserve); and a lowering of absorptive capability of the soil (counterintuitive, i know), which means than what precipitation that does fall, doesn’t get absorbed, but instead washes downslope

add to that the impact of reduced ground cover due to fires, and you get increased mud/land slides and flash floods

Ive beat this horse to death to no avail...but increased grazing improves all of those things.

Brush management
Ripped/torn vegetation regrows at a faster rate
Fertilization and nitrogren
Millions of hoof prints act as mini ponds and hold water for better absorption
Hoofs break up the hardened soil to improve absorption.

increased grazing isn’t the answer, but we’re not going to agree on that so i’ll step away from this discussion if that’s where this is going

Why? Ive provides my reasoning that coincides directly to your talking points above. Its certainly not a downgrade feom the current situation.

TDub wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 11:35 am

TraditionKU wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 11:20 am

TDub wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 11:03 am

Ive beat this horse to death to no avail...but increased grazing improves all of those things.

Brush management
Ripped/torn vegetation regrows at a faster rate
Fertilization and nitrogren
Millions of hoof prints act as mini ponds and hold water for better absorption
Hoofs break up the hardened soil to improve absorption.

increased grazing isn’t the answer, but we’re not going to agree on that so i’ll step away from this discussion if that’s where this is going

Why? Ive provides my reasoning that coincides directly to your talking points above. Its certainly not a downgrade feom the current situation.

there are mountains of evidence that counter your claims and relatively little that supports them

on the whole, cattle grazing has a negative impact on the ecology and environment of an area...and i’m happy to provide the sources for this sentiment, if you’d like

it isn’t any sort of a solution

and i don’t see how you’re making the connection between soil moisture and grazing...grazing necessarily increases the exposure of soil to wind and sun, and the clearing of land for grazing decrease plant diversity, particularly native plants that are out-competed by non-native grasses

some animals and plants benefit, but the majority do not

overgrazing increases exposure of soil. Grazing at a 50% rate has the opposite effect. Additionally as i said before hoofprints help tremendously with water absorption promoting vegetation growth and reducing hard soil slopes and runoff.