Kansas Crimson

pdub wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 12:34 pm I will say alternative pronouns are a bit silly.
It's great if you identify as a woman so use she/her.
To use they/them isn't logical and confusing for common conversations.

I don't necessarily disagree, but I don't get the vitriol toward it. I mean, did people get outraged that Lynn Ryan wanted to be called Nolan? It's confusing, you expect to call people by their first name.

I don't see what's wrong with calling people what they want to be called, regardless of whether you're using their name or substituting it with a pronoun.

Now, the ever-growing list-of-words-you-can't-say-because-that-word-was-used-200-years-ago-in-an-offensive-manner - that I have a problem with

Mjl wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 3:06 pm
I don't see what's wrong with calling people what they want to be called, regardless of whether you're using their name or substituting it with a pronoun.

This.

I'll try to accommodate calling someone whatever they want, within reason, assuming it's not offensive or something.

And if it's too weird I'll just judge them privately and talk about them behind their back to my wife like an adult.

Mjl wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 3:06 pm

pdub wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 12:34 pm I will say alternative pronouns are a bit silly.
It's great if you identify as a woman so use she/her.
To use they/them isn't logical and confusing for common conversations.

I don't necessarily disagree, but I don't get the vitriol toward it. I mean, did people get outraged that Lynn Ryan wanted to be called Nolan? It's confusing, you expect to call people by their first name.

I don't see what's wrong with calling people what they want to be called, regardless of whether you're using their name or substituting it with a pronoun.

Now, the ever-growing list-of-words-you-can't-say-because-that-word-was-used-200-years-ago-in-an-offensive-manner - that I have a problem with

my only issue is when these folks don’t have patience

if you look like a she, even if you’ve told me you prefer they/them (or he/him), honest mistakes can be made…some of us were raised to say sir and ma’am, and it may take a moment to retrain our brains when what we see doesn’t match someone’s personal narrative

A name is different than a pronoun when it comes to normal conversation.

For instance, say there's a gathering for dinner, if someone asks, where is Lynn, and the response is, 'they went to go pick some stuff up but said we don't have to wait,' but Lynn was supposed to show up with a few other people, then the conversation becomes unnecessarily convoluted/extended for, in my opinion, a selfish and quite likely attention seeking reason.

To me, it's different if I changed my proper name.
Or it would be similar if you changed your proper name to something that people could not pronounce.

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 3:09 pmI'll try to accommodate calling someone whatever they want, within reason, assuming it's not offensive or something.

Can't make this up.

¿¿¿¿

Does this actually happen to you guys in real life?

I don't recall ever having someone tell me their pronouns during a casual conversation.

KUTradition wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 3:13 pm

Mjl wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 3:06 pm

pdub wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 12:34 pm I will say alternative pronouns are a bit silly.
It's great if you identify as a woman so use she/her.
To use they/them isn't logical and confusing for common conversations.

I don't necessarily disagree, but I don't get the vitriol toward it. I mean, did people get outraged that Lynn Ryan wanted to be called Nolan? It's confusing, you expect to call people by their first name.

I don't see what's wrong with calling people what they want to be called, regardless of whether you're using their name or substituting it with a pronoun.

Now, the ever-growing list-of-words-you-can't-say-because-that-word-was-used-200-years-ago-in-an-offensive-manner - that I have a problem with

my only issue is when these folks don’t have patience

if you look like a she, even if you’ve told me you prefer they/them (or he/him), honest mistakes can be made…some of us were raised to say sir and ma’am, and it may take a moment to retrain our brains when what we see doesn’t match someone’s personal narrative

Agree.

And it's not the confusion of whether I think you look like a man/woman and then finding out you identify as either/or. It is the addition of something in our language used previously now being catered to you and everyone else will have to, if they are around you, ask more clarifying questions in situations.

Ze/zey is still silly to me but much more logical.

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 3:17 pm ¿¿¿¿

I think you accidentally made the smartest post of the entire thread by inadvertently demonstrating how English speakers have been using "they" and other pronouns as genderless, singular pronouns literally for centuries.

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 3:19 pm Does this actually happen to you guys in real life?

I don't recall ever having someone tell me their pronouns during a casual conversation.

Yes.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 3:20 pm

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 3:17 pm ¿¿¿¿

I think you accidentally made the smartest post of the entire thread by inadvertently demonstrating how English speakers have been using "they" and other pronouns as genderless, singular pronouns literally for centuries.

Someone, an indefinite pronoun, and they when used in the same sentence is clear even if not grammatically correct.

Does not apply.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 3:20 pm

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 3:17 pm ¿¿¿¿

I think you accidentally made the smartest post of the entire thread by inadvertently demonstrating how English speakers have been using "they" and other pronouns as genderless, singular pronouns literally for centuries.

Whenever I do something smart it is almost always on accident.

Phew, I thought I did something wrong and offended someone.

pdub wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 3:20 pm

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 3:19 pm Does this actually happen to you guys in real life?

I don't recall ever having someone tell me their pronouns during a casual conversation.

Yes.

That's rough.

Some people are a little too extra imo.

"Where's Tina?"
"They aren't coming."
"So is Josh not coming?"
"Josh is coming. I just said Tina wasn't coming."
"Tina is dating Josh so I assumed they wouldn't be coming."
"They aren't."
"No I mean, Tina and Josh."

KUTradition wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 3:13 pm

Mjl wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 3:06 pm

pdub wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 12:34 pm I will say alternative pronouns are a bit silly.
It's great if you identify as a woman so use she/her.
To use they/them isn't logical and confusing for common conversations.

I don't necessarily disagree, but I don't get the vitriol toward it. I mean, did people get outraged that Lynn Ryan wanted to be called Nolan? It's confusing, you expect to call people by their first name.

I don't see what's wrong with calling people what they want to be called, regardless of whether you're using their name or substituting it with a pronoun.

Now, the ever-growing list-of-words-you-can't-say-because-that-word-was-used-200-years-ago-in-an-offensive-manner - that I have a problem with

my only issue is when these folks don’t have patience

if you look like a she, even if you’ve told me you prefer they/them (or he/him), honest mistakes can be made…some of us were raised to say sir and ma’am, and it may take a moment to retrain our brains when what we see doesn’t match someone’s personal narrative

Mistakes happen. Assholes are assholes.

Taylor Tomlinson said something to the effect of: "I am not trying to be disrespectful of your identity, I'm just a fucking idiot."

pdub wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 3:24 pm "Where's Tina?"
"They aren't coming."
"So is Josh not coming?"
"Josh is coming. I just said Tina wasn't coming."
"Tina is dating Josh so I assumed they wouldn't be coming."
"They aren't."
"No I mean, Tina and Josh."

Extra.

"Tina isn't coming"

So should it be "they isn't coming" since it's just Tina?

Silly.

there is a snowflake around every corner. cocked and locked and ready to be offended.

KUTradition wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 3:31 pm viewtopic.php?p=301574#p301574

The thing with that, and kind of even ties into this, people that don't speak English as a first language realize that English is thee world's universal language and often even needed in their own everyday lives. So, they want to learn it, often need to learn it, and many even have to learn it. English speakers have it good going to most countries in the world--they already speak the universal language. We speak two (her, 3) languages in our household, but would get by just fine on English alone for the rest of our lives, even in the home country.

English grammar also doesn't make sense, contradicts itself, varies by region, and changes a lot. World should have picked something different.