Page 62 of 111
Re: Weather
Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 11:53 am
by Deleted User 89
what is the prevalence of overgrazing in the US?
Re: Weather
Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 11:53 am
by ousdahl
I’ve also heard from water conservation types that hoof prints degrade riparian habitat, and turn cold narrow stream channels into broad warm mud puddles
Re: Weather
Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 11:54 am
by TDub
Re: Weather
Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 11:54 am
by TDub
TraditionKU wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 11:53 am
what is the prevalence of overgrazing in the US?
Too high, hence why we should graze over more land with the same number of cattle
Re: Weather
Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 11:56 am
by Deleted User 89
TDub wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 11:54 am
TraditionKU wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 11:53 am
what is the prevalence of overgrazing in the US?
Too high, hence why we should graze over more land with the same number of cattle
1/4 of the planet’s land is used for grazing...i really don’t think clearing more land for that purpose is the solution
Re: Weather
Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 11:58 am
by TDub
Whose asking you to clear land for it? There are vast open spaces that dont need cleared. Open those up for grazing, open more forest land up for grazing. Its mutually beneficial
Re: Weather
Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 11:59 am
by TDub
There are Miles of farmland that could be grazed when the crops arent in them. Again, mutually beneficial.
Re: Weather
Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 11:59 am
by Deleted User 89
TDub wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 11:54 am
TraditionKU wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 11:53 am
what is the prevalence of overgrazing in the US?
Too high, hence why we should graze over more land with the same number of cattle
and you trust that with more available land, that the ranchers are going to be more responsible and just magically change their generations-old techniques?
jmo, but you’re kidding yourself if you think they aren’t just going to run more cattle (unless there are regulations in place)
if they can’t/won’t preserve what they already have access to, why do you think they’d all of a sudden start preserving when granted greater accesss to that resource?
Re: Weather
Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:01 pm
by Deleted User 89
TDub wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 11:59 am
There are Miles of farmland that could be grazed when the crops arent in them. Again, mutually beneficial.
when the crops aren’t in them it’s not like grass has just magically appeared. at least in my experience, when there aren’t crops the ground is tilled and the only thing growing is weeds
maybe it’s different in Oregon
Re: Weather
Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:02 pm
by TDub
You have solutions that arent going to require people to alter their generations old techniques? Lets hear em
Re: Weather
Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:05 pm
by TDub
TraditionKU wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:01 pm
TDub wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 11:59 am
There are Miles of farmland that could be grazed when the crops arent in them. Again, mutually beneficial.
when the crops aren’t in them it’s not like grass has just magically appeared. at least in my experience, when there aren’t crops the ground is tilled and the only thing growing is weeds
maybe it’s different in Oregon
You really need to watch that show i told you to check out. I cant remember what its called now but its about regenerative farming. You dont till, you let the stubble stay, the cattle graE the stubble and till the land and fertilize it as they move. Tiling is a wasted motion.
Re: Weather
Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:06 pm
by Deleted User 89
i’ve covered this before
most breeds of domesticated cattle are a huge part of the problem
long-horns and their kin are much less destructive, as are bison
i’d prefer the ranchers prove that they can be responsible with the resource before granting them access to more of it
Re: Weather
Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:07 pm
by TDub
Again I ask for your solutions that dont require generation old techniques to change.
Re: Weather
Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:09 pm
by Deleted User 89
TDub wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:05 pm
TraditionKU wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:01 pm
TDub wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 11:59 am
There are Miles of farmland that could be grazed when the crops arent in them. Again, mutually beneficial.
when the crops aren’t in them it’s not like grass has just magically appeared. at least in my experience, when there aren’t crops the ground is tilled and the only thing growing is weeds
maybe it’s different in Oregon
You really need to watch that show i told you to check out. I cant remember what its called now but its about regenerative farming. You dont till, you let the stubble stay, the cattle graE the stubble and till the land and fertilize it as they move. Tiling is a wasted motion.
no, i get it
the issue is that most farmers and ranchers don’t practice such things...it’s why there’s still a problem
i know it CAN be done sustainably...but, by and large it isn’t being done
it’s no different than any other for-profit exercise. most people suck, and if they can get away with cutting corners in order to make an extra buck, they will
Re: Weather
Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:15 pm
by Deleted User 89
TDub wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:07 pm
Again I ask for your solutions that dont require generation old techniques to change.
i don’t know what you want me to say
the style if ranching that has been practiced for generations isn’t sustainable
just like coal mines
or commercial fishing
you just want to provide more resources to the same system. i say the system itself is unsustainable.
rather than giving ranchers more access to PUBLIC land, how about a mandate to use less-destructive varieties or species?
personally, i’m not a fan of hiking and camping and having to deal with the ramifications if cattle grazing
how about ranchers just run less cattle? i have no problem paying a bit more for beef, and having it as a treat (or not at all), rather than a staple
Re: Weather
Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:17 pm
by Deleted User 89
you just seem so set in maintaining the status quo and way of life
i’m of the opinion that such a thing is no longer possible, lest we continue down the rabbit hole of destruction to this planet
Re: Weather
Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:25 pm
by TDub
TraditionKU wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:15 pm
TDub wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:07 pm
Again I ask for your solutions that dont require generation old techniques to change.
i don’t know what you want me to say
the style if ranching that has been practiced for generations isn’t sustainable
just like coal mines
or commercial fishing
you just want to provide more resources to the same system. i say the system itself is unsustainable.
rather than giving ranchers more access to PUBLIC land, how about a mandate to use less-destructive varieties or species?
personally, i’m not a fan of hiking and camping and having to deal with the ramifications if cattle grazing
how about ranchers just run less cattle? i have no problem paying a bit more for beef, and having it as a treat (or not at all), rather than a staple
Im talking about changing our approach to ranching. Youre the one stuck on maintaining the status quo. You havent provided any solutions, but you sure have shot down potentials. Consume less, eat less beef is just as much if not more of a vhange to generations old techniques as my proposal.
Re: Weather
Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 1:57 pm
by Deleted User 89
TDub wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:25 pm
TraditionKU wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:15 pm
TDub wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:07 pm
Again I ask for your solutions that dont require generation old techniques to change.
i don’t know what you want me to say
the style if ranching that has been practiced for generations isn’t sustainable
just like coal mines
or commercial fishing
you just want to provide more resources to the same system. i say the system itself is unsustainable.
rather than giving ranchers more access to PUBLIC land, how about a mandate to use less-destructive varieties or species?
personally, i’m not a fan of hiking and camping and having to deal with the ramifications if cattle grazing
how about ranchers just run less cattle? i have no problem paying a bit more for beef, and having it as a treat (or not at all), rather than a staple
Im talking about changing our approach to ranching. Youre the one stuck on maintaining the status quo. You havent provided any solutions, but you sure have shot down potentials. Consume less, eat less beef is just as much if not more of a vhange to generations old techniques as my proposal.
please explain how i’m stuck on the status quo
you seem to not like my solutions because they’re inconvenient for the ‘murican lifestyle...after all, beef is what’s for dinner, right?
i’m trying to get at the root of most environmental issues - consumption, both specific patterns and general excess. i don’t see how your solution does anything to address that root issue, but rather just kicks the can down the road until the population and demand catches up to the expanded grazing land and cattle population
and i’m still curious as to how ranchers, the majority of which overgraze, are going to be compelled to change. i’m assuming it’s the majority, otherwise there wouldn’t be an overgrazing issue, but perhaps i’m wrong
Re: Weather
Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 1:59 pm
by Deleted User 89
Re: Weather
Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 2:02 pm
by TDub
TraditionKU wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 1:57 pm
TDub wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:25 pm
TraditionKU wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:15 pm
i don’t know what you want me to say
the style if ranching that has been practiced for generations isn’t sustainable
just like coal mines
or commercial fishing
you just want to provide more resources to the same system. i say the system itself is unsustainable.
rather than giving ranchers more access to PUBLIC land, how about a mandate to use less-destructive varieties or species?
personally, i’m not a fan of hiking and camping and having to deal with the ramifications if cattle grazing
how about ranchers just run less cattle? i have no problem paying a bit more for beef, and having it as a treat (or not at all), rather than a staple
Im talking about changing our approach to ranching. Youre the one stuck on maintaining the status quo. You havent provided any solutions, but you sure have shot down potentials. Consume less, eat less beef is just as much if not more of a vhange to generations old techniques as my proposal.
please explain how i’m stuck on the status quo
you seem to not like my solutions because they’re inconvenient for the ‘murican lifestyle...after all, beef is what’s for dinner, right?
i’m trying to get at the root of most environmental issues - consumption, both specific patterns and general excess. i don’t see how your solution does anything to address that root issue, but rather just kicks the can down the road until the population and demand catches up to the expanded grazing land and cattle population
and i’m still curious as to how ranchers, the majority of which overgraze, are going to be compelled to change. i’m assuming it’s the majority, otherwise there wouldn’t be an overgrazing issue, but perhaps i’m wrong
You said it right in your response. You cant see how they will change. My point being that they are as likely or more likely to change as anyone else. Something has to change to accommodate future survival. My opinion this is a comparatively easy change when compared to reimagining entire structures of society.
You find it hard to believe but I kbow ranchers that are actively pursuing these changes and working wirh farmers to achieve qaya to be more efficient and sustainable and thus more profitable.
That benefits us more than reseaignibf infrastructure and/or relocating millions of people and/or imposing incredible and drastic life changing restrictions on millions.