Kansas Crimson

Cascadia wrote: ↑Tue Feb 15, 2022 6:58 pm

NewtonHawk11 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 15, 2022 4:35 pm Melendez is going to be really nice when Salvy moves to 1B/DH full time in a year or so.

Why not just let Perez and Melendez rotate between DH and C with Salvy getting less C reps as he ages.

If they both hit enough to justify DH (or even 1b) this works. Odds of that are still not strong. Which is why I’d be quietly finding a challenge trade for Melendez. Some other really good prospect who is blocked.

Ideally an outfielder.

I keep Melendez and share DH. A catcher like that is hard to replace. Salvy is on the downswing side and I value his bat more now.

Sparko wrote: ↑Wed Feb 16, 2022 8:55 pm I keep Melendez and share DH. A catcher like that is hard to replace. Salvy is on the downswing side and I value his bat more now.

Agree completely. If you have a good catcher prospect, you have to keep him. Let Salvy play 1B and DH more. Especially if Santana's market is going to increase because of universal DH.

Yay!!! Still locked out.

I hate the business side of baseball so freaking much.

NewtonHawk11 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 17, 2022 10:54 am

Sparko wrote: ↑Wed Feb 16, 2022 8:55 pm I keep Melendez and share DH. A catcher like that is hard to replace. Salvy is on the downswing side and I value his bat more now.

Agree completely. If you have a good catcher prospect, you have to keep him. Let Salvy play 1B and DH more. Especially if Santana's market is going to increase because of universal DH.

I don't think Santana has positive trade value.

Sparko wrote: ↑Mon Feb 21, 2022 10:55 am Yay!!! Still locked out.

I hate the business side of baseball so freaking much.

Yes, but let's stop any narrative that this is a "Rich vs. Rich" battle.

The owners continue to try and jam (b)(m)illions of profits into their pockets which the players will never be able to negotiate back.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Mon Feb 21, 2022 12:38 pm

Sparko wrote: ↑Mon Feb 21, 2022 10:55 am Yay!!! Still locked out.

I hate the business side of baseball so freaking much.

Yes, but let's stop any narrative that this is a "Rich vs. Rich" battle.

The owners continue to try and jam (b)(m)illions of profits into their pockets which the players will never be able to negotiate back.

The concept of "owner" is cringe-worthy. Hoping there is competitive balance and maybe some money clawed back from the space traveling set.

Sparko wrote: ↑Mon Feb 21, 2022 7:54 pm

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Mon Feb 21, 2022 12:38 pm

Sparko wrote: ↑Mon Feb 21, 2022 10:55 am Yay!!! Still locked out.

I hate the business side of baseball so freaking much.

Yes, but let's stop any narrative that this is a "Rich vs. Rich" battle.

The owners continue to try and jam (b)(m)illions of profits into their pockets which the players will never be able to negotiate back.

The concept of "owner" is cringe-worthy. Hoping there is competitive balance and maybe some money clawed back from the space traveling set.

Short of ending the antitrust exemption (which will not happen), the only ways to really "claw anything back" from the owners is (1) governments at every level stop subsidizing stadiums, and (2) players get more of the pot (and the pot is comprehensive and includes things like Ballpark Village (St. Louis) and The Battery (Atlanta).

MLB is broken and has been for a long time now. Players want more money but essentially refuse to give anything back to the owners.

I'm not on either side

Cascadia wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 10:23 am MLB is broken and has been for a long time now. Players want more money but essentially refuse to give anything back to the owners.

I'm not on either side

What exactly should players be giving back to the owners?

The fact is that the players got trampled in the last round of CBA negotiations, because they used players and former players as negotiators. You know how giddy the owners were to get gobs and gobs and gobs of money in exchange for trivial shit like veterans getting hotel suites on the road?

My god.

jfish26 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 10:36 am

Cascadia wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 10:23 am MLB is broken and has been for a long time now. Players want more money but essentially refuse to give anything back to the owners.

I'm not on either side

What exactly should players be giving back to the owners?

The fact is that the players got trampled in the last round of CBA negotiations, because they used players and former players as negotiators. You know how giddy the owners were to get gobs and gobs and gobs of money in exchange for trivial shit like veterans getting hotel suites on the road?

My god.

That one thing that nearly every other professional sports league has.

Cascadia wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 10:37 am

jfish26 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 10:36 am

Cascadia wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 10:23 am MLB is broken and has been for a long time now. Players want more money but essentially refuse to give anything back to the owners.

I'm not on either side

What exactly should players be giving back to the owners?

The fact is that the players got trampled in the last round of CBA negotiations, because they used players and former players as negotiators. You know how giddy the owners were to get gobs and gobs and gobs of money in exchange for trivial shit like veterans getting hotel suites on the road?

My god.

That one thing that nearly every other professional sports league has.

Which is all well and good, except that all a cap does is shove more money to the owners.

If a cap would result in lower ticket prices, no more public stadium funding, free and universal streaming, meaningful community initiatives, treating minor leaguers like humans, and so on, I'd be all about it.

But it'd just be more yachts and Citations, more Yellowstone Club hideaways, and so on. So, fuck that.

jfish26 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 10:41 am

Cascadia wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 10:37 am

jfish26 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 10:36 am

What exactly should players be giving back to the owners?

The fact is that the players got trampled in the last round of CBA negotiations, because they used players and former players as negotiators. You know how giddy the owners were to get gobs and gobs and gobs of money in exchange for trivial shit like veterans getting hotel suites on the road?

My god.

That one thing that nearly every other professional sports league has.

Which is all well and good, except that all a cap does is shove more money to the owners.

If a cap would result in lower ticket prices, no more public stadium funding, free and universal streaming, meaningful community initiatives, treating minor leaguers like humans, and so on, I'd be all about it.

But it'd just be more yachts and Citations, more Yellowstone Club hideaways, and so on. So, fuck that.

That's not the point.

The point is the players always refuse to give anything so we play this same game ever 10 years or so.

I get that you're anti-owner but that doesn't change this situation any.

I guess I've never fundamentally understood why people think players should get more money

Cascadia wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 10:44 am

jfish26 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 10:41 am

Cascadia wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 10:37 am


That one thing that nearly every other professional sports league has.

Which is all well and good, except that all a cap does is shove more money to the owners.

If a cap would result in lower ticket prices, no more public stadium funding, free and universal streaming, meaningful community initiatives, treating minor leaguers like humans, and so on, I'd be all about it.

But it'd just be more yachts and Citations, more Yellowstone Club hideaways, and so on. So, fuck that.

That's not the point.

The point is the players always refuse to give anything so we play this same game ever 10 years or so.

I get that you're anti-owner but that doesn't change this situation any.

I guess I've never fundamentally understood why people think players should get more money

Because it's a two-sided, zero-sum game.

The money goes to either the players, or the owners. That's it.

Yes, you can find examples of players who end up making fuck you money, but the vast majority of them don't (particularly with the owners figuring out how to maximize the value (to them) of the service time construct).

What you can't find an example of is an owner who ever lost money on buying a team. Even the shittiest, grossest, most incompetent ones make hundreds of millions (or in excess of a billion) on their investments. It's riskless.

Yeah, this is one of those "you're either with us or with the terrorists" deals.

I understand all that, but why should the players get more money?

Maybe fans need a seat at the table for these negotiations. Cause fans are REALLY the only ones getting fucked here.

Maybe there should be a hotdog and beer price cap. Maybe revenue sharing of parking that goes to the fans. Ticket prices are subsidized by t-shirt and cap sales.

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 11:01 am Maybe fans need a seat at the table for these negotiations. Cause fans are REALLY the only ones getting fucked here.

Maybe their should be a hotdog and beer price cap. Maybe revenue sharing of parking that goes to the fans. Ticket prices are subsidized by t-shirt and cap sales.

This right here.

pdub wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 11:14 am

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 11:01 am Maybe fans need a seat at the table for these negotiations. Cause fans are REALLY the only ones getting fucked here.

Maybe their should be a hotdog and beer price cap. Maybe revenue sharing of parking that goes to the fans. Ticket prices are subsidized by t-shirt and cap sales.

This right here.

Ok, but this is wishcasting. The owners don't even really need fans to go to games anymore, and that's only getting worse as legalized gambling comes into the picture.

Literally the only power "people" really have here is (1) to stop watching/gambling, etc., and (2) stop funding stadiums.

If you could promise me that "owners" winning any part of these negotiations would be good for fans, I'd be all ears. But that's not how it works. Two-sided, zero sum game.