Kansas Crimson

There’s still room for Clemence, I think, based on game need. If you’re wanting defense and boards, you’re going with Zuby or Udeh, though. Udeh has the higher ceiling, specimen is right. He was also the worst guy we played last night and has been a defensive liability to this point. Zuby just gets after the ball and plays tough, young T-Rob is also correct.

Still cause for concern that none of them are block scorers. If Harris is this good, though, he’ll get them involved enough. Harris is playing like a small Rajon Rondo. Unreal.

When Rice gets going, what has anyone seen that makes them think Yesufu will hold Rice off for minutes?

"He was also the worst guy we played last night and has been a defensive liability to this point."

What?
No.

Better than Zuby.
Certainly better than Yesufu and Pettiford.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Wed Nov 16, 2022 8:22 am When Rice gets going, what has anyone seen that makes them think Yesufu will hold Rice off for minutes?

Nothing at all. Rice has better size in the same role and Yesefu hasn't exhibited some sort of elevated play due to his additional experience.

twocoach wrote: ↑Wed Nov 16, 2022 8:27 am

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Wed Nov 16, 2022 8:22 am When Rice gets going, what has anyone seen that makes them think Yesufu will hold Rice off for minutes?

Nothing at all. Rice has better size in the same role and Yesefu hasn't exhibited some sort of elevated play due to his additional experience.

I expected Yesufu to play more than Pettiford last night because of Rice's status. But at times we went with Pettiford next to Harris. I don't know what Yesufu has brought us at all considering he can't play PG. He's gotta start knocking down shots and/or getting to the rim or it just might not be the right spot for him. I don't see how he becomes a scoring PG.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Wed Nov 16, 2022 8:22 am When Rice gets going, what has anyone seen that makes them think Yesufu will hold Rice off for minutes?

Nothing to this point indicates Yes has a real path to significant minutes, particularly when Rice returns.

His shot isn't falling his defense is suspect at best, and he's not a great facilitator. Without one of those 3 things what value does he have?

It's possible that will change and he will get it going, and I hope he can, but nothing to this point has given me a ton of hope that he is going to be a factor.

TDub wrote: ↑Wed Nov 16, 2022 8:52 am

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Wed Nov 16, 2022 8:22 am When Rice gets going, what has anyone seen that makes them think Yesufu will hold Rice off for minutes?

Nothing to this point indicates Yes has a real path to significant minutes, particularly when Rice returns.

His shot isn't falling his defense is suspect at best, and he's not a great facilitator. Without one of those 3 things what value does he have?

It's possible that will change and he will get it going, and I hope he can, but nothing to this point has given me a ton of hope that he is going to be a factor.

The only thing is that I would bet on his shot falling before I would on Pettiford's. But add Rice to the mix (no pun intended), and the path gets narrow for Yes.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Wed Nov 16, 2022 8:55 am

TDub wrote: ↑Wed Nov 16, 2022 8:52 am

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Wed Nov 16, 2022 8:22 am When Rice gets going, what has anyone seen that makes them think Yesufu will hold Rice off for minutes?

Nothing to this point indicates Yes has a real path to significant minutes, particularly when Rice returns.

His shot isn't falling his defense is suspect at best, and he's not a great facilitator. Without one of those 3 things what value does he have?

It's possible that will change and he will get it going, and I hope he can, but nothing to this point has given me a ton of hope that he is going to be a factor.

The only thing is that I would bet on his shot falling before I would on Pettiford's. But add Rice to the mix (no pun intended), and the path gets narrow for Yes.

sure, I'd agree with that. But, I think Pettiford gives you better defense and better vision and passing/ball movement. I'd guess that only improves with time under Self. So he's already ahead in 2 of the 3 mentioned phases...I dont see him slipping to the point where he loses many minutes to Yes unless Yes goes all kemba walker...which, is unlikely at this point.

TDub wrote: ↑Wed Nov 16, 2022 8:58 am

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Wed Nov 16, 2022 8:55 am

TDub wrote: ↑Wed Nov 16, 2022 8:52 am

Nothing to this point indicates Yes has a real path to significant minutes, particularly when Rice returns.

His shot isn't falling his defense is suspect at best, and he's not a great facilitator. Without one of those 3 things what value does he have?

It's possible that will change and he will get it going, and I hope he can, but nothing to this point has given me a ton of hope that he is going to be a factor.

The only thing is that I would bet on his shot falling before I would on Pettiford's. But add Rice to the mix (no pun intended), and the path gets narrow for Yes.

sure, I'd agree with that. But, I think Pettiford gives you better defense and better vision and passing/ball movement. I'd guess that only improves with time under Self. So he's already ahead in 2 of the 3 mentioned phases...I dont see him slipping to the point where he loses many minutes to Yes unless Yes goes all kemba walker...which, is unlikely at this point.

Since Yesufu is apparently not a PG, I don't think he's in line to take any of Pettiford's minutes. Pettiford could take some of Yes's minutes, but that's not something I personally would want to see. A Harris/Pettiford/Wing/Wing/KJ or Udeh or Zuby lineup is just a bad offensive recipe.

We really need Rice on the wing if Yesufu isn't going to give us scoring.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Wed Nov 16, 2022 8:47 am

twocoach wrote: ↑Wed Nov 16, 2022 8:27 am

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Wed Nov 16, 2022 8:22 am When Rice gets going, what has anyone seen that makes them think Yesufu will hold Rice off for minutes?

Nothing at all. Rice has better size in the same role and Yesefu hasn't exhibited some sort of elevated play due to his additional experience.

I expected Yesufu to play more than Pettiford last night because of Rice's status. But at times we went with Pettiford next to Harris. I don't know what Yesufu has brought us at all considering he can't play PG. He's gotta start knocking down shots and/or getting to the rim or it just might not be the right spot for him. I don't see how he becomes a scoring PG.

I just don't see what Pettiford really does either besides diving on the ground for a loose ball here and there. Our backup PG position is going to be a revolving door between Yes and Pettiford. Hell, we could see a lineup of McCullar, Rice and Dick out there as the guards compared to putting Yes and Pettiford out there.

I just haven't seen it with Bobby or Yes yet. It's going to be a struggle if Juando gets into foul trouble.

NewtonHawk11 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 16, 2022 9:16 am

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Wed Nov 16, 2022 8:47 am

twocoach wrote: ↑Wed Nov 16, 2022 8:27 am

Nothing at all. Rice has better size in the same role and Yesefu hasn't exhibited some sort of elevated play due to his additional experience.

I expected Yesufu to play more than Pettiford last night because of Rice's status. But at times we went with Pettiford next to Harris. I don't know what Yesufu has brought us at all considering he can't play PG. He's gotta start knocking down shots and/or getting to the rim or it just might not be the right spot for him. I don't see how he becomes a scoring PG.

I just don't see what Pettiford really does either besides diving on the ground for a loose ball here and there. Our backup PG position is going to be a revolving door between Yes and Pettiford. Hell, we could see a lineup of McCullar, Rice and Dick out there as the guards compared to putting Yes and Pettiford out there.

I just haven't seen it with Bobby or Yes yet. It's going to be a struggle if Juando gets into foul trouble.

I don't think Yes has played a single second at backup PG, but I agree with you in general. Pettiford is a solid backup PG so far, but I don't expect anything more, and, really, that's all we need from him and is a bigger help than it looks like on paper.

pdub wrote: ↑Wed Nov 16, 2022 8:24 am "He was also the worst guy we played last night and has been a defensive liability to this point."

What?
No.

Better than Zuby.
Certainly better than Yesufu and Pettiford.

Agreed.

Udeh had 4 blocks.

I am not seeing this glaring defensive liability.

Bobby didn’t do a lot last night, but he’s been head and shoulders above Yes so far when it comes to getting his teammates involved and getting them the ball in positions to score

he had 5 assists against nd state

He's Dejuanish but can get to the basket better - and might have something with the quick stop little teardrop.
Good backup point.

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Wed Nov 16, 2022 9:20 am

pdub wrote: ↑Wed Nov 16, 2022 8:24 am "He was also the worst guy we played last night and has been a defensive liability to this point."

What?
No.

Better than Zuby.
Certainly better than Yesufu and Pettiford.

Agreed.

Udeh had 4 blocks.

I am not seeing this glaring defensive liability.

Because it's the same concept as thinking Lightfoot is a good defender because of weakside and chase down blocks. The difference, and why I'm not concerned, is Udeh's bad defense can all be chalked up to bad footwork, bad positioning, and not knowing assignments. Those are all fixable/coachable within this season and, unlike Lightfoot, he has the physical tools to be a great defender.

But, right now, he has zero clue what he's doing particularly on hedging and icing ball screens and his rotations. He got roasted on those multiple times last night and it's the reason why Norm went with Zuby down the stretch when he knew that it was going to be our defense that would carry us home.

I'm not big on this stat being the end all, but Duke was +14 in Udeh's 13 minutes last night. It doesn't mean everything, but it does mean that Duke was scoring with him on the court. No one else came close to that number.

+/- is the most useless stat in basketball.
Maybe the most useless stat of all sports.
It's like randys ancient civilization show.

KUTradition wrote: ↑Wed Nov 16, 2022 9:21 amBobby didn’t do a lot last night, but he’s been head and shoulders above Yes so far when it comes to getting his teammates involved and getting them the ball in positions to score

Well, again, they're not playing the same position and we're asking different things from them. If Pettiford couldn't play PG, they'd both be in jeopardy of being benchwarmers behind Rice. Thankfully, one of them can be Dajuan's spell.

Mjl wrote: ↑Wed Nov 16, 2022 12:52 am Zuby has a lot of Thomas Robinson in him.

Interesting that Clemence was a factor in the last Champion's Classic and didn't get off the bench in this one despite younger competition. I think his Kansas career ended last game when they ran that set play to Iso for him, clearing out an entire side of the floor to get him 1 on 1 at top of key against their slow-ass big dude. He made a jab step and launched (and clanked) a three. His value is supposed to be his ability to stretch the defense and score. If he can't do that against NDSU, he can't do it against better opposition.

People keep comparing zuby to jamari. I like the trob comparison more

I am not seeing all these mistakes with him any more than I do with any of our other bigs or any of their deficiencies.

What I do see is legit size that covers a lot of ground and can help to bridge the gap while he learns to hedge/rotate/ball screen defense.

The only thing yesefu has on pettiford right now is shooting. And he's stronger and a better finisher through contact.

The thing is.. yesefu didn't make any of those shots against Duke