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Re: Mahomie
Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:06 am
by jfish26
Your mileage may vary I guess. I saw it as inserting himself into a moment that should have belonged to Mahomes. It's like congratulating an ex on her new engagement.
His intentions might have been pure, but that moment wasn't about him or his intentions.
Re: Mahomie
Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:08 am
by jfish26
CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:05 am
jfish26 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 21, 2019 8:59 am
CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Mon Jan 21, 2019 8:49 am
I don't see this one. The catch rules are changed. Hogan never lost control of the ball, hence the play stood.
The muffed punt was much closer and is another example of the imperfections of replay. Certainly wasn't anything there to confirm the call. Then it becomes what do the videos suggest--letting it stand or conclusive evidence to overturn it. The latter would suggest that there would need to be evidence that the ball was never touched. Hence, almost proving a negative. If you asked 100 people to look at that video, I bet you'd get 50 "no he didn't touch it" and 50 "he might have touched it." Gene Steratore showed the videos that he believed proved Edelman didn't touch it. Still, probably a little doubt that it "might" have been touched. What does that mean in terms of the rule standard? I don't know, and I don't think the NFL knows either.
But, what is lost is that the muffed punt did not matter at all. 2 plays after, the chiefs intercepted the ball and 2 plays after that they scored a TD. I just can't say the refs were a big factor in this game, especially when on the same day, they were 100% a factor in the outcome of the other game.
I don't think you have to play the "what happened next" game with every call or decision or play. The calls, decisions and plays can exist in a vacuum, for purposes of discussion.
The standard for overturning calls is supposed to be a lot higher than what was applied in the muffed punt case.
Well, I mean unless I misunderstood your post, you said the game was about the refs. To me, Reid, Suttton, Belichick and Brady had a much bigger effect on the outcome of the game than the stripes. I don't think the Chiefs are getting an apology from the league office like New Orleans did.
I meant "this bullet". And of course I agree - as always when there is officiating controversy, there's a lot the loser could have done that would have avoided the refs having that much power. No question this isn't a situation that directly cost the Chiefs the game (although offsetting procedure and offsides penalties would have been right, and would have reversed the outcome).
Re: Mahomie
Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:13 am
by CrimsonNBlue
Ah, yep, I completely misunderstood your post or bullet.
I don't know the exact NFL rules on formation, but I do know the guards and tackles are always lined up a little back from the center and ball. If it was illegal procedure, then yes, it should have been called offsetting. And, I also think Ford is a dumbass if he's lining up based on where the tackle is instead of where the ball is.
Re: Mahomie
Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:20 am
by jfish26
CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:13 am
Ah, yep, I completely misunderstood your post or bullet.
I don't know the exact NFL rules on formation, but I do know the guards and tackles are always lined up a little back from the center and ball. If it was illegal procedure, then yes, it should have been called offsetting. And, I also think Ford is a dumbass if he's lining up based on where the tackle is instead of where the ball is.
No disagreement from me on that. And whether it's a personnel issue or a Sutton issue (or both - it's certainly both), it's inexcusable that the only good part about the defense was completely neutralized for an entire championship game.
Re: Mahomie
Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:21 am
by CrimsonNBlue
It’s more Sutton I’d think. A decent way to eliminate a pass rush is to keep those guys on the field for 45 minutes and 40 first downs. They were gassed.
Re: Mahomie
Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:23 am
by jfish26
Which is on Sutton, for giving New England carte blanche from the line of scrimmage to the first down line.
Re: Mahomie
Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:30 am
by twocoach
jfish26 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:39 am
Another couple for my list:
* The Chiefs need to have a hard conversation with Eric Berry this offseason. They can’t have the roster and gameplan held hostage like this again. No one can question Berry’s resolve or talent, but it’s hard to walk away from this disaster and not have some feelings that Berry is a bit selfish.
* Injuries played a big part of this season for the Chiefs, perhaps none more important than Earl Thomas breaking his dang leg a week before the Chiefs were trading for him.
I have no idea why you would think that Berry is being selfish. Did I miss something?
Re: Mahomie
Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:33 am
by jfish26
You being serious?
Re: Mahomie
Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:35 am
by twocoach
jfish26 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:08 am
CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:05 am
jfish26 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 21, 2019 8:59 am
I don't think you have to play the "what happened next" game with every call or decision or play. The calls, decisions and plays can exist in a vacuum, for purposes of discussion.
The standard for overturning calls is supposed to be a lot higher than what was applied in the muffed punt case.
Well, I mean unless I misunderstood your post, you said the game was about the refs. To me, Reid, Suttton, Belichick and Brady had a much bigger effect on the outcome of the game than the stripes. I don't think the Chiefs are getting an apology from the league office like New Orleans did.
I meant "this bullet". And of course I agree - as always when there is officiating controversy, there's a lot the loser could have done that would have avoided the refs having that much power. No question this isn't a situation that directly cost the Chiefs the game (although offsetting procedure and offsides penalties would have been right, and would have reversed the outcome).
It is standard practice for a tackle to line up as far back as they can get away with to help them handle a good pash rusher. This dumb move was 100% a mistake on Fors. He lined up in reference to the tackle and totally forgot to do what d limemen are taight to do since the first learn the game. Turn your head and look at the ball and pit your hand behind it.
This wasnt some brilliant move by Belichik. Ford just made a mistake at the worst possible time.
Re: Mahomie
Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:36 am
by pdub
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/2581 ... ship-games
#2 on the list:
Chris Jones is called for a phantom roughing the passer penalty
Situation: Second-and-7 on the New England 28-yard line, 7:10 to go in the fourth quarter
Score: Chiefs lead 21-17
Well, this is awkward. Earlier this week, I wrote about how there isn't much evidence of Tom Brady getting a disproportionate number of roughing the passer calls. So, several days later, Brady ... gets a shaky roughing the passer call when the Chiefs defensive lineman appeared to hit Brady in the shoulder, only to be called for a blow to the head. Thanks, refs.
# 3 on the list:
The Patriots win the overtime coin toss
Situation: Beginning of overtime
Score: Tied at 31-31
After Patrick Mahomes drove the Chiefs 48 yards on two plays to get into field goal range at the end of regulation, Andy Reid called for Mahomes to throw one pass downfield before Harrison Butker tied the game up with a 39-yard field goal. Mahomes never saw the field again, as the Patriots won the coin toss and then drove 75 yards for the game-winning touchdown. It was a cruel end to the season for the presumptive league MVP.
Re: Mahomie
Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:39 am
by twocoach
jfish26 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:33 am
You being serious?
Are you saying that he is selfish for trying to overcome his injury and be on the field? Maybe I missed you supporting your accusation with reasoning somewhere. I am busy right now so not skimming back through all these posts.
Re: Mahomie
Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:40 am
by jfish26
twocoach wrote: ↑Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:35 am
jfish26 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:08 am
CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:05 am
Well, I mean unless I misunderstood your post, you said the game was about the refs. To me, Reid, Suttton, Belichick and Brady had a much bigger effect on the outcome of the game than the stripes. I don't think the Chiefs are getting an apology from the league office like New Orleans did.
I meant "this bullet". And of course I agree - as always when there is officiating controversy, there's a lot the loser could have done that would have avoided the refs having that much power. No question this isn't a situation that directly cost the Chiefs the game (although offsetting procedure and offsides penalties would have been right, and would have reversed the outcome).
It is standard practice for a tackle to line up as far back as they can get away with to help them handle a good pash rusher. This dumb move was 100% a mistake on Fors. He lined up in reference to the tackle and totally forgot to do what d limemen are taight to do since the first learn the game. Turn your head and look at the ball and pit your hand behind it.
This wasnt some brilliant move by Belichik. Ford just made a mistake at the worst possible time.
I think it's shorting Belichick some credit to think he wasn't involved. It would not surprise me in the least if Ford had been doing that all game long, and Belichick just waited to poke the refs about it until pretty late. Self does the same thing.
Re: Mahomie
Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:42 am
by CrimsonNBlue
Chiefs get to attempt Azteca again next season.
Re: Mahomie
Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:44 am
by jfish26
twocoach wrote: ↑Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:39 am
jfish26 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:33 am
You being serious?
Are you saying that he is selfish for trying to overcome his injury and be on the field? Maybe I missed you supporting your accusation with reasoning somewhere. I am busy right now so not skimming back through all these posts.
Berry made it pretty clear that his motivation was to play in the Super Bowl because, among other reasons, it's in his hometown. In service of that motivation, he refused to go on IR and made himself a distraction throughout the year. Then, whether because of the injury or general rust, he wasn't very good when he did play.
Re: Mahomie
Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:49 am
by CrimsonNBlue
An ancient looking Gronk abused an ancient looking Berry. That was a big factor.
Re: Mahomie
Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 10:10 am
by holidaysmore
Gronk abused everyone the Chiefs threw at him. I heard to much from the local pundits that Gronk was washed. Edleman was to slow. Hogan didn’t scare you. It was the two RBs to be worried about. Initially it was White that I thought would be the difference but the power running game wore the Chiefs down.
Pats knew how to adjust to everything the Chiefs threw at them. Brady was surgical how he picked apart the Chiefs.
Off season priority #1 is...? (Besides fire or let retire Boob Sutton)
Re: Mahomie
Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 10:17 am
by pdub
I would say secondary.
Need a corner, need a safety.
You had a corner but you traded him for a 2nd ( basically a 3rd now ) and a 4th.
Re: Mahomie
Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 10:19 am
by pdub
That said, we've got three picks in the first two rounds.
Can do something with that hopefully.
I think Houston is gone, need the cap for Hill and later on Mahomes. Franchise Ford.
Fire Bob Sutton.
Re: Mahomie
Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 10:20 am
by Deleted User 89
jfish26 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:06 am
Your mileage may vary I guess. I saw it as inserting himself into a moment that should have belonged to Mahomes. It's like congratulating an ex on her new engagement.
His intentions might have been pure, but that moment wasn't about him or his intentions.
and, in the immediate post-game presser he used a question asked about Mahomes to praise himself and the pats
he’s a douche, plain and simple
Re: Mahomie
Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 10:33 am
by jfish26
pdub wrote: ↑Mon Jan 21, 2019 10:17 am
I would say secondary.
Need a corner, need a safety.
You had a corner but you traded him for a 2nd ( basically a 3rd now ) and a 4th.
You can never have enough corners, but I won't be too upset going into next year if the starting DBs are Ward, Fuller, Berry and O'Daniel or Sorensen or Watts.
I think linebacker is the biggest hole, personnel-wise. We had an inability all season long to put a body on running backs at the line of scrimmage.