2024/2025 Lineup

[BiggDick]

I dunno if Dajuan necessarily got "worse" last year, so much as possibly just hit his ceiling. Who knows if he's got room to develop, but that'll be a fun storyline this season.

Self's been fluffing Zeke as potential lead, which could be rad. A big shooter who can run the show would be quite the "make opposing D adjust" piece to throw out there, even if only for a few minutes a game.

That feels weird to say tho, cuz our history with mid-major guard transfers ain't great.

We got Dig and Shak too, so at least we got options. Okay, and as has been mentioned, maybe even Mc too.

I also wonder whether Dajuan would be more productive if his minutes were closer to 30 a game, maybe. But I tend to err on the side of, an extra 5 minutes of physical activity shouldn't make that big a difference to a bunch of college kids with exceptional strength and conditioning programs at their disposal.

And, Self giving the Ferrari to any newcomer for even 10 minutes a game kind of sounds huge right now, at least until one or more newcomers prove they can hang.

Back to Dajuan's development: while I don't think it's realistic to expect him to suddenly look like an actual shooter, or to suddenly look like an actual slasher, I'd at least like to see him hesitate less. So often with his moves to the rim, and maybe even with his jumpers sometimes too, it seemed like he didn't commit to shooting until he was up in the air and on the way back down anyway.

[DeletedUser]

I think it's natural as fans to have sticker shock with DH after having guys like Sherron Devon Devonte and Frank play PG for much of the Self era. He's not a score first PG like those guys, so there is a comfortability that's not there when he has the ball in his hands in late clock situations.

But he's also got more nattys than most of the guys. So both ways work if the pieces fit around him.

He can't be your star, but he can absolutely be your starter. He averaged 8.5pts and 6.5ast last year. Those are good numbers.

[BiggDick]

if we're allowed to critique our starting PG...

even if he's not a "score first" or otherwise star lead like the doods you mention, I wish he at least had a little bit more of a "just go make something happen" vibe to him.

So much of what he does, and does well, is within the flow of the offense. But what if the offense is stalling, or the play is blown, or it's late clock and something's just gotta happen?

That's when a score first PG is great. Get your own jumper, get to the rim, get something.

If those aren't options, then that's when a non-scoring but otherwise elite PG should ideally still make something happen. At least get into the D and get something for somebody else.

Just get something.

that, and maybe mitigate the couple bonehead mistakes a game that would be easier to live with from a talented-but-raw freshman, but otherwise just shouldn't have to expect from a 6th year senior.

[BiggDick]

I been waiting to see Flory next to another dood for reference.

this makes him look damn near as big as Zach, shoulder to shoulder. If anything, his shoulders look a touch higher.

Looks considerably larger than 6'7" AJ next to him too.

[BiggDick]

how does 6'6" Griffen look shorter than 6'5" Passmore? Maybe it's just the hair.

And with a lower body injury to rehab, looks like Elmarko putting extra work on the upper, cuz homie got some guns.

Also who's that chick second from upper left, and is she crouching or really just 4 feet tall

[DeletedUser]

if we're allowed to critique our starting PG...

1) even if he's not a "score first" or otherwise star lead like the doods you mention, I wish he at least had a little bit more of a "just go make something happen" vibe to him.

2)So much of what he does, and does well, is within the flow of the offense. But what if the offense is stalling, or the play is blown, or it's late clock and something's just gotta happen?

That's when a score first PG is great. Get your own jumper, get to the rim, get something.

If those aren't options, then that's when a non-scoring but otherwise elite PG should ideally still make something happen. At least get into the D and get something for somebody else.

Just get something.

3) that, and maybe mitigate the couple bonehead mistakes a game that would be easier to live with from a talented-but-raw freshman, but otherwise just shouldn't have to expect from a 6th year senior.

1) He averaged 8.5 pts per game. He does need to get better at converting floaters when things break down and thats what we end up with. But the vibe he should have is to get the ball to the talented offensive players. Thats a good vibe to have when you've got guys like Mayo Griffen Storr and HD around you.

2) when things break down get the ball to the guys who can create for themselves. It is why he was effective the year we won it all. He had Och CB JW and DMac who could all score or if alongside Remy then Remy could take a tough contested shot and make it (sometimes). We did not have that last year. I also expect Self will have a little better feel for how to utilize HD this year which will benefit DH as well in these scenarios.

3) 1.6 turnovers per game. 6.5 assists per game. Without looking, i am guessing, that for guys who averaged over 5 assists per game from power 5 conference teams, that his assist to turnover ratio is in the top 25% of those players. You're asking an awful lot to complain about 1.6 turnovers per game for a guy who averages that many assists.

[BiggDick]

1) yea his role is primarily to get the ball to the other guys. But, inevitably, when things break down, and the best option for a possession is for Dajuan to just go get himself one, yea he does need to get better at converting floaters. I think we agree on this point.

2) yeah, it's nice to have other guys who can create for themselves too. But, I think within this point may be some matter of reconciling "get the ball to the guys who can create for themselves," with, "at least get into the D and get something for somebody else." Or rather, maybe it's reconciling the idea of getting the ball into the hands of guys who can create for themselves with getting the ball OUT of the hands of our lead guy when things break down. Seems paradoxical or something. Ugh, this point already feels dumb. Let's move along.

3) yes, his assist:turnover numbers are good. But, it's a particular type of turnovers that concerns me - the aforesaid more freshman-like turnovers, to which Dajuan has always seemed prone, even as an upperclassman. It's one thing to turn it over trying to thread the needle for some otherwise great pass trying for some awesome play that otherwise comes up just a little short. I'm more concerned about the sorts of mistakes like suddenly tossing a pass into the third row of the bleachers, or leaving his power forward with the ball 90 feet away to get past the timeline instead of help bring it up the court, or dribbling straight out of bounds with 4 seconds left in the natty, sorts of errors.

But! in the interest of cautious optimism, and of the potential for development exhibited during his 6th year super duper senior campaign, I'm hoping he can limit these sorts of mistakes this season.

[DeletedUser]

Hit the ground running today....

1) if he averages around 8pts per game then he's accomplishing this in my eyes. There aren't that many possessions that should end in a DH shot.

2) how do you think he gets all his assists? It's not because people are afraid of his outside shooting and closing out aggressively. It's precisely because he "gets into the D" and creates shots for others.

3) he doesn't commit those types of turnovers very often. You've gone totally subjective now, on purpose. You're seemingly stuck on 1 turnover late in the national title game, that we won. And you've snowballed it into a narrative that he's making tons of bad turnovers. He's not. His numbers don't lie. He played 35min per game as the primary ballhandler and averaged 1.6 turnovers per game. For 2 years in a row.

[AlOerter]

how does 6'6" Griffen look shorter than 6'5" Passmore? Maybe it's just the hair.

And with a lower body injury to rehab, looks like Elmarko putting extra work on the upper, cuz homie got some guns.

Also who's that chick second from upper left, and is she crouching or really just 4 feet tall

Historically, listed heights have been fudged a bit. Looks like Clemons gets several inches from his long neck.

[BiggDick]

Yea.

Even Dick was an exaggerated 2-3 inches bigger than his now-listed just 6’6” in the league, even tho he always looked so much bigger anyway. Maybe it was the camera angle or something.

[TDub]

we get it


dick jokes are super hilarious....especially in every post.

[BiggDick]

so yesterday I tried for cautious optimism.

well today, lemme try for obnoxious devil's advocate downer pity...cuz this is something I realized, and feel compelled to say out loud just once:

this is the least excited I've ever been for an upcoming season as a KU hoops fan.

Almost any other season, I can look positively to the next, and feel the projected lineup really does have the potential to be elite - through that combo of individual star potential and collective sum-of-the-parts. I'm afraid this season has neither.

Who's our NBA potential? Flory? And even if he is, who knows if he's even ready to contribute at this level. Plus, as has been suggested, is he just as likely to get the Diallo treatment? (Oh, and here's your friendly reminder that Self, HOFer tho he is, has never been to a final four with fewer than 3 future NBA players in the starting lineup.)

The core of guys we return is the same cringey hodgepodge that was getting absolutely curb stomped by the end of last season. That suggests so much of this season's success likely hinges on newcomers, which just feels so weird to say. Let's hope a bunch of transfers and freshman can mesh with our weird ass collection of returning program guys, yaaay?

I know this is largely frowned upon here, and tbh I honestly dunno if this one is downer pity or silver linings and it'll prob break the guttermeter either way, but either way: thank the fucking lord for NIL and the transfer portal.

The number one overall ranking really does feel like fool's gold. If it's not garnering much attention, I think it's more than anything cuz KU fans at large are not dumb, and realize we just don't have as much potential to look forward to like we do pretty much every other season. And besides, if historic trends hold, a preseason number one is less likely to indicate we're getting hardware, and far more likely to indicate we're getting bounced in the first weekend.

*deep breath*

ok, good vent, thanks for listening. Of course, I say all this out loud as much as anything to reverse any jinx, and to give myself the chance to be served a big ol heaping plate of crow, in which case I'll gladly eat.

[Overlander]

Selfs history has provided some pretty badass seasons with lower talent.
I don't need a Championship to have enjoyed a season of basketball.

[BiggDick]

It’s not a need, but it sure does help.

Trying to think of the best badass season with lower talent.

06: won the league even tho so young (and tourney performance notwithstanding)

12: won the league and final four even tho our bench was KY Jelly and Teahan (and our 3+ future NBA doods notwithstanding)

What other seasons count both as “lower talent” and “badass?”

[Overlander]

I would put 2012 in there.
Even though there were some players drafted on that team, only a few stuck in the NBA more than a few minutes.

[BiggDick]

Yea.

TRob struggled in the league, but that wasn’t known til he got there. Dude was a top 5 draft pick.

Just musing now, I guess he came into the league right around the time Steph and co was transforming things, which is to say, kind of a bad time for a more old school PF without much of a J.

Tyshawn’s best nba moment was prob spilling Jason Kidd’s beverage all over the court.

Withey was a reserve who went 2nd round and bounced around a few years mostly just by being really big.

BMac was on the roster but a shirt, and had a pretty good career as a journeyman shooter. (Ugh he was so likable until those gross ass allegations.)

But for the sake of the college season, yea, that was badass.

For the sake of offseason message board content:

Would ya rather have 2-3 elite doods and a weak bench, or legit depth top to bottom of a bunch of good enough but not really elite talent?

[Overlander]

Both of those scenarios have a fun factor about them, for different reasons.

I enjoy KU teams (mostly Self Teams), that play hard nose defense, inflict their will on opponents, and feature young men that we WANT to see succeed.

My wife played WCBB. She became an immediate Coach Self fan just by watching the defense his teams featured.

[pdub]

If we are measuring talent by what they do in the NBA, which often times that's how it's measured here ( not totally how it works in college ), then 2016 was a lower talent team that overachieved.

2 starters got drafted but both of their NBA careers are either over or about to be.
Svi was like 17 years old.
Self was angry at Diallo for some reason.

[BiggDick]

16 is an interesting one.

Svi was actually 18 as a sophomore that season (he's still only 27 today?!)

Perry was the star of that team. I ended up pretty underwhelmed tho I realize not everyone feels that way.

Jamari (150ish) and Hunter Mickelson (71) were seniors and Brannen Greene (36) was a junior, all ranked recruits who didn't exactly finish their careers as BMOC upperclassmen. Carlton Bragg was a 21st ranked 5-star big who never amounted to shit on the court and got in trouble off it.

yea Self gave Diallo the doghouse treatment. He also got F'd by the NCAA, made him sit out the beginning of the season refusing to clear him while they arbitrarily took forever looking at things like his 6th grade report card. I mention now cuz it almost felt like after not starting the season was part of why he just never got into a groove with the team.

He played/backed up mostly the 5 I think, cuz Lucas was the only big who could actually play big, and Hunter and Jamari and Carlton Bongg got some reps there too iirc. (what WAS the front court rotation that year with all those doods?)

I remember wishing we'd try Diallo at the 4 some/some more...at least those times when Perry would look overwhelmed by bigger quicker talent. Cuz the thing about Diallo was...

[BiggDick]

But, to the point on "a lower talent team that overachieved," that team was full of studs, on paper a least. Lots of burger kids and 150 recruits and upperclassmen, so I dunno if they were necessarily lower talent.

They were a preseason #4 that did win the league and league tourney and as a #1 seed were within a BS Devonte block/charge call of a final four too, so I dunno whether that means they overachieved, either.