Kansas Crimson

I guess what I'm wondering is I don't know how you can support the status quo but with more enforcement and also support Bill Self as the coach of Kansas or at least a few of our players being on our team.

(maybe/probably your answer is in the 67 pages...its an open question and not solely directed at you)

Wording wise what are the major differences between our notice of allegations and Louisville's notice of allegations when it comes to coaches/staff?

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Mon May 04, 2020 5:32 pm I guess what I'm wondering is I don't know how you can support the status quo but with more enforcement and also support Bill Self as the coach of Kansas or at least a few of our players being on our team.

(maybe/probably your answer is in the 67 pages...its an open question and not solely directed at you)

He doesn't want the current players. He wants a roster full of less skilled, less athletic guys who are playing for the love of the game and not hoping to have a professional career. You know, amateurism.

in the history of a game, has a player ever come out and said, "I'm just doing it for the paycheck."

?



(besides Andrew Wiggins)

NDballer13 wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 8:19 am

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Mon May 04, 2020 5:32 pm I guess what I'm wondering is I don't know how you can support the status quo but with more enforcement and also support Bill Self as the coach of Kansas or at least a few of our players being on our team.

(maybe/probably your answer is in the 67 pages...its an open question and not solely directed at you)

He doesn't want the current players. He wants a roster full of less skilled, less athletic guys who are playing for the love of the game and not hoping to have a professional career. You know, amateurism.

No, he's fine with players with pro potential also, so long as they contractually forgo market compensation for their time at and services for KU, in exchange for the benefits of being here and their freedom to work somewhere else after their service is done.

Seems like there's some sort of historical precedent for this system, vis a vis passage to America, or payment of debts.

Trouble is, the players have other options.

ousdahl wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 9:11 am in the history of a game, has a player ever come out and said, "I'm just doing it for the paycheck."

?



(besides Andrew Wiggins)

I mean, it's literally their job.

Some people truly love what they do, and would do it for free or for less. But, certainly, the vast majority of people do their job because it is a somewhat-optimized way of using their abilities to make money.

true.

but, I dunno, as much competition as there is for roster spots in the league, I just think it would be hard to do if you didn't have a considerable amount of passion for it (or, both of your parents were also pro athletes and you're so naturally talented that you can still ink max deals and put up borderline all-star numbers just by mailing it in)

but even ripping on Wiggins, I don't think he, nor any other player, would ever publicly admit it's "just a job" to them. And yeah it's a job but it's also a game. It's meant to be fun in the first place, compared to, say, researching legal cases or crunching numbers on a spreadsheet or sweeping up popcorn in the arena after the game.

ousdahl wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 9:50 am true.

but, I dunno, as much competition as there is for roster spots in the league, I just think it would be hard to do if you didn't have a considerable amount of passion for it (or, both of your parents were also pro athletes and you're so naturally talented that you can still ink max deals and put up borderline all-star numbers just by mailing it in)

but even ripping on Wiggins, I don't think he, nor any other player, would ever publicly admit it's "just a job" to them. And yeah it's a job but it's also a game. It's meant to be fun in the first place, compared to, say, researching legal cases or crunching numbers on a spreadsheet or sweeping up popcorn in the arena after the game.

I think, by and large, these guys have enough people around them telling them that, no matter what, they should not say it's about the money. So you won't hear that said out loud much.

I agree, though, that the competition is so fierce that, with rare exceptions, you really do need to love the game to succeed, because of the insane amount of work that goes into all of it now, year-round.

jfish26 wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 9:23 am Seems like there's some sort of historical precedent for this system, vis a vis passage to America, or payment of debts.

Fuck off.

what's the most commonly studied majors for college athletes, and hoops athletes in particular?

I'd guess either Communications Studies or African American Studies (or their equivalents), for basketball players. Just guessing anecdotally by what I've seen from our guys over the last 15-20 years.

African American Studies.

yeah, sounds about right to me, again at least anecdotally.

and aren't liberal arts degrees notoriously suspect in terms of career opportunities?

I hope I can say this without sounding too insensitive, but how many college hoops athletes actually come to college for the degree? Versus, say, going through the motions of class and studying just to retain eligibility, cuz they're mostly just there for the hoops?

"Rush can't read."

dude could barely even run on a treadmill!

jfish26 wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 9:23 amNo, he's fine with players with pro potential also, so long as they contractually forgo market compensation for their time at and services for KU, in exchange for the benefits of being here and their freedom to work somewhere else after their service is done.

Seems like there's some sort of historical precedent for this system, vis a vis passage to America, or payment of debts.

Trouble is, the players have other options.

Ridiculous is that what could a fan get out of it other than the subjective and yet-to-be-explained feely goody part?

If NCAA wants to keep kids in school, see them graduate and play four years of basketball, fucking incentivize them to.

pdub wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 9:56 am

jfish26 wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 9:23 am Seems like there's some sort of historical precedent for this system, vis a vis passage to America, or payment of debts.

Fuck off.

I know it's not especially comfortable, but our country has a nasty history with labor exploitation, particularly of vulnerable/desperate groups.

"Amateurism," as applied in the modern economy, really does echo indentured servitude from the 1600s:

Servants typically worked four to seven years in exchange for passage, room, board, lodging and freedom dues. While the life of an indentured servant was harsh and restrictive, it wasn't slavery. There were laws that protected some of their rights.

https://www.pbs.org/opb/historydetectiv ... in-the-us/

Debates persist about the general characteristics of early indentured servants, but they were certainly primarily younger English men in search of new opportunities for wealth and advancement that were unavailable to them at home.

https://www.oxfordbibliographies.com/vi ... 4-0113.xml

To be very clear - the life of an amateur college basketball player today is clearly worlds better than that of an indentured servant in the 1600s. No one is saying amateurism is killing college basketball players.

But the theme is the same - needy young people contracting out of economic and personal freedoms, in order to emerge from the period of service with better opportunities.

The thing is - nobody would agree to this if they didn't need to, or if there were better options immediately available. Which is sort of the point here.

Like it or not, what you are doing is asking players to choose to take less than they're worth. There can be no question about the implications of that on who plays college basketball.

Communications - Garrett
Undecided - Dotson
Sport Management - Braun
Undecided - Harris
African and African American Studies - Moss
Communications - Elliott
Communications - Wilson
Sport Management - Teahan
Undecided - Enaruna
Business Administration - Jank
Liberal Arts and Sciences - SDS
Sport Management - Ochai
Communications - McCormack
Undecided - Dok
Economics - Lightfoot

The fact Communications and Sport Management made up well over half of the decided majors isn't what surprised me, but Dok "graduated" with an undecided major. (Can you even do that?) I think that tells you more about how they look at college as a way for a degree than studying some generic major would.

I think Udoka has to declare before applying for graduation. Which, checks calendar, still hasn't happened through all this weirdness.

He'll surely fit some general major.

you can pick a major after the fact?

wild