Kansas Crimson

KUTradition wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 7:09 am not related to Pete, but heard yesterday that the reason FEMA wasn’t approved in ohio is because of the nature of the disaster requiring it be treated like a superfund cleanup (where there is culpability), which is the purview of the EPA

which makes sense as far as dealing with the actual accident and resulting mess.

But, there is a humanitarian impact with displacement of thousands of residents, food, shelter, resources, lost income, on and on....that seems would be in FEMA's wheelhouse.

If payment responsibility the issue, I'm sure FEMA gas the ability to track the costs and retroactively bill the necessary party at a future date.

TDub wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 7:20 am

KUTradition wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 7:09 am not related to Pete, but heard yesterday that the reason FEMA wasn’t approved in ohio is because of the nature of the disaster requiring it be treated like a superfund cleanup (where there is culpability), which is the purview of the EPA

which makes sense as far as dealing with the actual accident and resulting mess.

But, there is a humanitarian impact with displacement of thousands of residents, food, shelter, resources, lost income, on and on....that seems would be in FEMA's wheelhouse.

If payment responsibility the issue, I'm sure FEMA gas the ability to track the costs and retroactively bill the necessary party at a future date.

i’m with you in spirit

there were other details about the actual laws/acts that this sort of thing falls under, but i don’t recall the details (live interview on npr). i’ll see if i can find it

unfortunately, it’s not easy as just keeping the receipts when there is a criminal investigation and liability involved. i’m not advocating for, or agree with the state of affairs, but that’s my limited understanding

now i’m reading reports that FEMA is actually getting involved, so who knows

KUTradition wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 7:24 am

TDub wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 7:20 am

KUTradition wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 7:09 am not related to Pete, but heard yesterday that the reason FEMA wasn’t approved in ohio is because of the nature of the disaster requiring it be treated like a superfund cleanup (where there is culpability), which is the purview of the EPA

which makes sense as far as dealing with the actual accident and resulting mess.

But, there is a humanitarian impact with displacement of thousands of residents, food, shelter, resources, lost income, on and on....that seems would be in FEMA's wheelhouse.

If payment responsibility the issue, I'm sure FEMA gas the ability to track the costs and retroactively bill the necessary party at a future date.

i’m with you in spirit

there were other details about the actual laws/acts that this sort of thing falls under, but i don’t recall the details (live interview on npr). i’ll see if i can find it

unfortunately, it’s not easy as just keeping the receipts when there is a criminal investigation and liability involved. i’m not advocating for, or agree with the state of affairs, but that’s my limited understanding

Sure, nothings ever as easy as it can sound.

But, meanwhile, while they fight over who should do what......the people impacted (who bear absolutely 0 responsibility in this) are required to shoulder the burden.

Why have government programs when they dont step up to the plate in the time of need?

Ive seen reports of a bunch of residents putting up go fund mes and surviving on what is donated by other citizens.

If the government can't help (and do it very quickly) in this particular situation then fuck it all and disband it. Try again later.





related .. what does a transportation secretary actual do? honest question because I have no clue.

KUTradition wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 7:31 am now i’m reading reports that FEMA is actually getting involved, so who knows

They are, upon further review the funding was approved....but, seems there is too much bullshit to wade through to get to any sort of answetr/result.

We need to slim down the bullshit in all aspects of federal oversight and programs.

tangent, but re: fed gov’t can suck ass sometimes…

was listening to a story on the situation with the shipping container wall that douchey put up in arizona. a decent chunk of it was on protected land and in violation of the ESA and Clean Water Act.

the Forest Service new this and did nothing

If you have never been on site at a large scale disaster, it can be quite confusing and there are a lot of moving parts. There is FEMA and there is SEMA (State Emergency Management) and there is local law enforcement and mayors and sometimes Governors and State politicians (I met Jim Ryun on a site once) sometimes just walk onto sites. If politicians show up everyone working has to move so the politician can be photographed on site looking concerned.

Every time some new entity comes on site they have to determine who is in charge and who controls what, where is the clearing house for efforts. And then there are private land holders who might be a local person or a large corporation who may not even be in town so you have to find their attorneys. Everyone has to sign liability releases and maybe non-disclosure agreements. In other words, no one just comes on site and starts doing shit other than to collect bodies. It can take a couple of days just to get equipment on site and a chain of command in place. And then they have to bring in experts to make decisions as the FEMA and SEMA folks aren't that typically. The experts don't show up until after the site is secured and a chain of command has been established. If there is a question about what happened they move nothing until the experts/consultants get there to document everything.

The private property is a real crap shoot. There are sometimes structures that need to be cleared for the safety of cleanup operations and owners don't want them taken down and threaten lawsuits. Then there are owners who want their structures taken down even though they are not dangerous but the entities on site have given them a number they can get in claims for loss. So the owner will ask FEMA/SEMA to tear down an undamaged existing structure for the insurance money. There is whole group of workers there just to tear down shit for free.

I see the video from the earthquake sites in the middle east with everyday citizens jumping on piles of rubble and all pitching in to pass chunks of concrete down a line to try and clear a building and it looks like instantaneous action. It just don't happen like that. If there are dangerous chemicals involved it probably takes twice as long. The only time it works very quickly is in a very small town in small scale circumstances.

TDub wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 7:32 am Why have government programs when they dont step up to the plate in the time of need?
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If the government can't help (and do it very quickly) in this particular situation then fuck it all and disband it. Try again later.

This disaster was one of the creation of those who thought there was too much government involvement and dismantled all the regulations. Can’t have it both ways. Either the government is a solution, in which case the answer is prevention through robust regulations, or the government should remain hands-off.

While I truly feel for the residents of the areas affected the blame for their predicament lies solely with the railroad companies and their bought-and-paid-for lobbyists and politicians who enabled their irresponsible behavior. “Disband it and try again later” should begin with voting out everyone who enabled weakening of the safety regulations.

What do you think of the odds for passing any meaningful reforms in rail safety given the nihist majority of one of legislative bodies? I’d even wager that they wouldn’t pass disaster aid.

KUTradition wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 8:51 am tangent, but re: fed gov’t can suck ass sometimes…

was listening to a story on the situation with the shipping container wall that douchey put up in arizona. a decent chunk of it was on protected land and in violation of the ESA and Clean Water Act.

the Forest Service new this and did nothing

The reality is the Forest Service can do nothing other than file legal action and the Governor knew this. Those remote areas have a couple of agents on staff to cover 100's and 1000's of square miles of land. They aren't going to go out there and start shooting crane operators or truck drivers or arrest everyone. It's why rogue politicians like to stage big performative acts on remote public land. There is no one there to stop them.

the other thing i just recalled is that the railroad has not been fully cooperating from the start, which has added quite a bit of delay

i don’t think we even have a full accounting of all the chemicals involved yet

japhy wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 9:03 am

KUTradition wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 8:51 am tangent, but re: fed gov’t can suck ass sometimes…

was listening to a story on the situation with the shipping container wall that douchey put up in arizona. a decent chunk of it was on protected land and in violation of the ESA and Clean Water Act.

the Forest Service new this and did nothing

The reality is the Forest Service can do nothing other than file legal action and the Governor knew this. Those remote areas have a couple of agents on staff to cover 100's and 1000's of square miles of land. They aren't going to go out there and start shooting crane operators or truck drivers or arrest everyone. It's why rogue politicians like to stage big performative acts on remote public land. There is no one there to stop them.

i realize that, but to my knowledge they didn’t even file the legal action…NGOs did

The mission of the Forest Service is to sustain the health, diversity, and productivity of the nation’s forests and grasslands to meet the needs of present and future generations.

fail

I’m just glad Norfolk Southern has recently invested so many billions into stock buybacks.

nm, thought this was the Capitalism Causes Climate Change thread.

But hey, it fits here too

You really struggle with the concept of stock buybacks.

Norfolk Southern Corp is a publicly traded company.

TDub wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 7:34 am

KUTradition wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 7:31 am now i’m reading reports that FEMA is actually getting involved, so who knows

They are, upon further review the funding was approved....but, seems there is too much bullshit to wade through to get to any sort of answetr/result.

We need to slim down the bullshit in all aspects of federal oversight and programs.

The problems seem to occur when auditing, compliance and regulation get lumped into the category of "bullshit" to be slimmed down.

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 10:27 am You really struggle with the concept of stock buybacks.

Norfolk Southern Corp is a publicly traded company.

What would you call it?

https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/22/investin ... ember%2031.

"In March 2022, Norfolk Southern (NSC) announced a new $10 billion share repurchase plan. Its latest annual financial report, filed just hours before the derailment this month, shows that it still had $7.5 billion available to buy additional shares under that repurchase plan as of December 31.

Norfolk Southern did not respond to questions Wednesday on whether it expects to change its share repurchase plans in the wake of the derailment.

The company also returned an additional $1.2 billion to shareholders in the form of dividend payments in 2022, and $1 billion in 2021, bringing total payments to shareholders to $4.6 billion last year and $4.1 billion in 2021.

The shareholders did much better than the company’s 19,000 employees. Total employee compensation in 2022 came to $2.6 billion, up from $2.4 billion in 2021."

twocoach wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 10:33 am

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 10:27 am You really struggle with the concept of stock buybacks.

Norfolk Southern Corp is a publicly traded company.

What would you call it?

https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/22/investin ... ember%2031.

"In March 2022, Norfolk Southern (NSC) announced a new $10 billion share repurchase plan. Its latest annual financial report, filed just hours before the derailment this month, shows that it still had $7.5 billion available to buy additional shares under that repurchase plan as of December 31.

Norfolk Southern did not respond to questions Wednesday on whether it expects to change its share repurchase plans in the wake of the derailment.

The company also returned an additional $1.2 billion to shareholders in the form of dividend payments in 2022, and $1 billion in 2021, bringing total payments to shareholders to $4.6 billion last year and $4.1 billion in 2021.

The shareholders did much better than the company’s 19,000 employees. Total employee compensation in 2022 came to $2.6 billion, up from $2.4 billion in 2021."

Ok?

I didn't refute that stock buybacks occured, did I?

But thanks for the info.

Who do dividends and stock buybacks benefit?

Shareholders.


Who can be a shareholder of Norfolk Southern Corp?

Anyone with about $222 to purchase a share of their stock.

KUTradition wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 9:18 am The mission of the Forest Service is to sustain the health, diversity, and productivity of the nation’s forests and grasslands to meet the needs of present and future generations.

fail

Cut funding, put in place a Secretary who doesn't believe in the mission, that is what you get. Obviously the next step is to do away with the USFS entirely and let fossil fuel and forest product lobbyists run the forests. Grover Norquist drew up the blueprint years ago.

It just seems like some of that cash used as stock buybacks (which has little effect beyond juicing stock value?) would have been better invested in basic maintenance and upkeep, so as to prevent things like derailments and subsequent environmental disasters.

But why invest in basic maintenance and upkeep when you could enjoy profits instead!

#Capitalism