2024/2025 Lineup

[pdub]

Well then 06 wasn't lower talent either.
Brandon Rush, Mario Chalmers, Julian Wright, Russ Rob ( and Micah Downs ) all 5 star recruits.
Kaun was a top 40 recruit. DJax a top 60 recruit. Giles a top 70 recruit.

For me, the biggest overachieving team is still 2009 ( probably followed by 2012 because of where they ended up ).
Every starter from 08 bounced - you lost 7 of the 8 players who played the most minutes - over 3/4ths of your minutes had graduated/gone pro.

You play your 6th man and your backup backup center.
Two local kids from Kansas and a JUCO transfer are your off guards ( the JUCO transfer even plays time at the 4 ).
A freshman just barely ranked in ESPN's top 100 starts, running point at times.
Two freshmen knuckleheads, though regarded well as recruits, have to contribute big too.

They loose 2 games in the B12 and win the conference without sharing.

[DeletedUser]

For me, the biggest overachieving team is still 2009 ( probably followed by 2012 because of where they ended up ).
Every starter from 08 bounced - you lost 7 of the 8 players who played the most minutes - over 3/4ths of your minutes had graduated/gone pro.

You play your 6th man and your backup backup center.
Two local kids from Kansas and a JUCO transfer are your off guards ( the JUCO transfer even plays time at the 4 ).
A freshman just barely ranked in ESPN's top 100 starts, running point at times.
Two freshmen knuckleheads, though regarded well as recruits, have to contribute big too.

They loose 2 games in the B12 and win the conference without sharing.

Agree.

[pdub]

Brady Morningstar was good at Free State his senior year but he wasn't like breaking records good.
The Lawrence Journal World didn't have front page features of what Brady was doing that season ( though Free State did do very well that year ).

Tyrel Reed played ( albeit balled the fuck out ) in a town of 2,600 people.

Those aren't guys who should be starting or playing the minutes of a starter as underclassmen but sure enough, they did.

[KUTradition]

i agree on Brady, on the fence with Reed

[DeletedUser]

The amount Self has gotten out of guys like Reed Morningstar Lucas DH Lightfoot etc are why he's been so successful. There are other coaches out there who have done better with the one and done types. But nobody has done better with the 3 and 4 year guys.

And Christan Braun was certainly not thought of as an NBA player and he developed into a freaking stud who will have a long NBA career. Better NBA career than numerous former Jayhawks drafted higher than him.

[KUTradition]

was Ochai predicted as a league guy as a frosh?

[pdub]

Reed was a 3 star kid who didn't join an academy - he just stayed dominating farmhands at his 3A high school.

He saw next to no minutes in 2008 and then had the 5th most minutes for us in 09.
Reed's the kinda guy who stays at Kansas for 4 years and, in his 4th year, gets those minutes.
This is not a knock on Reed - loved the guy - but typically, under Bill Self's reign, he's not contributing at that level when he's a sophomore.

[pdub]

was Ochai predicted as a league guy as a frosh?

No.
But I recall saying he had a good chance at going league after his half year ( replacing itaintmyfault Grimes ).
I loved Ochai instantly.

[BiggDick]

re: "guys like Reed Morningstar Lucas DH Lightfoot etc," yea Self has been successful.

I'm wondering if DH is a sort of outlier here. Unlike all those other guys, he ended up starting 4 straight years.

I think the question here is whether Dajuan got recruited over?

Guys like Reed, Morningstar, definitely Lucas, all ended up in bigger than expected roles ones somebody else was hurt or ineligible or something. Lightfoot too, in a sense, tho he never started an entire season about it.

I guess you could say the same of DH, cuz no one really expected him to start in 22 over other guys like Yes, and over/alongside other guys like Remy (I still wondered who woulda been the 5th starter if Jalen didn't get in trouble right before the season started)

23 Yes and Bobby didn't progress, at all. We were in a honeymoon year tho, so maybe that's some factor here, as it was in 09.

24 arguably Arterio and Elmarko were both examples of recruiting over Dajuan. They just didn't pan out as well as expected.

25 it's a shame Elmarko exploded his knee. I really think he coulda taken a leap, and Self had him penciled in as that more dynamic other option at lead.

This actually makes me feel a little better about 4 straight years of starting Dajuan. Maybe it's less actually planning to build the roster around a Naadir Tharpe sort of talent for so many seasons, and, as fish said, "every recruit in the country having known that there are no minutes;" and more actually a Landen Lucas situation when we end up starting the less talented but more program-familiar dood when some other likely superior option fell through.

[BiggDick]

And Christan Braun was certainly not thought of as an NBA player and he developed into a freaking stud who will have a long NBA career. Better NBA career than numerous former Jayhawks drafted higher than him.

yea, this dood's progress and development ended up a very pleasant surprise.

He looked so timid at times as a sophomore that I woulda legit taken Tyrel Reed over him.

[pdub]

Ous, the king of whatever way, even if it's guised as a backhanded compliment, he can put down Dajuan Harris.

[BiggDick]

Well then 06 wasn't lower talent either.
Brandon Rush, Mario Chalmers, Julian Wright, Russ Rob ( and Micah Downs ) all 5 star recruits.
Kaun was a top 40 recruit. DJax a top 60 recruit. Giles a top 70 recruit.

this is a good point. I made the "so young" comment without considering rankings yet.

They weren't expected to win the conference - OU was, then Texas, we were preseason tied for 3rd with Baylor - but they did anyway.

But every guy you mention was a freshman or sophomore.

Once they were juniors and seniors, they won a natty.

Contrast that with the similarly ranked guys who didn't quite pan out the same as upperclassmen in 16.

If only Mickelson and Traylor and Greene developed as well as Kaun and Jackson and Rush.

[pdub]

Brannen Greene coulda been a college stud.
Between the ears stopped him.

[BiggDick]

Ous, the king of whatever way, even if it's guised as a backhanded compliment, he can put down Dajuan Harris.

I honestly expected Elmarko to be a sort of Remy role this year - check in and make defenses have to adjust to our lead, rather than get away with sagging off our lead to overplay our other guys - until the injury.

And until the injury, I wonder if Self really did expect that much of Elmarko, and if the plan really was to roll with only two PG/lead/small guards this year.

After the injury, we went and got Shak in a real hurry, then picked up Coit too - the best available at the time.

But either way, a big storyline after last year, ETA and for that matter also the year before that - and I mean this not as backhanded but as only a matter of fact! - was try to figure out ways to NOT have to play Dajuan 35+ a night again.

[BiggDick]

Brannen Greene coulda been a college stud.
Between the ears stopped him.

yea, that was much of it.

He also never really developed or did much besides shooting. He lacked lateral/defensive quickness. And was he that athletic generally? Dude was big enough to throw down the standard issue KU wing back door lob, but I don't recall it happening much (at all?)

[pdub]

He lacked lateral/defensive quickness. And was he that athletic generally?

Perry Ellis was a consensus 2nd team All American during Brannen's career.

[BiggDick]

wut?

[pdub]

wut?

Perry Ellis lacked the things you mentioned and became a college stud.
Brannen ended up, before they each played a minute for KU, ranked the higher recruit than Perry.
I think Perry bought in and put in the work and Brannen did not ( hence why he didn't develop ).

[BiggDick]

ah.

I guess they were both similarly ranked recruits - that 20-30ish 4/5 star range. Perry was a burger and Greene was not.

But, Perry seemed higher regarded from day one. He even started some as a freshman (albeit to dismal results), and played a bigger role every year. Yea, much of that was cuz Perry bought in, much more than Brannen.

But, to quote a question about quickness and athleticism of one player, then to respond with accolades about another player, kind of confused me.

Even if Brannen's head was on straight and he bought in, I dunno if he was ever that athletic either way.

[BiggDick]

Also, I think Perry was more athletic than Brannen all along. Dude could get up, and moved better overall.