No One Cares Because Nothing Matters Anymore

[Deleted User 863]

It just seems like some of that cash used as stock buybacks (which has little effect beyond juicing stock value?) would have been better invested in basic maintenance and upkeep, so as to prevent things like derailments and subsequent environmental disasters.

But why invest in basic maintenance and upkeep when you could enjoy profits instead!

#Capitalism

Again, you seem to struggle with the concept of stock buybacks, both in purpose and who they benefit.


Their inability to prevent this disaster has very little to do with stock buybacks. But that is one of those fancy words/phrases you frequently use as a trigger. Often incorrectly.

[zsn]

Sorry ousie, I have to make a slight correction to your take. Remember the capitalism-corporatism discussion in the other thread? Corporatism caused this disaster. Capitalism would have avoided it. True capitalist behavior would have taken into account the economic consequences of cleanup and loss of goodwill. Corporatism doesn’t care about the consequences. They take all the profits and leave the literal dirty work to the rest of us, aided and abetted by the aforementioned Grover Norquists. You can thank the anti regulations cabal for this one. But we’ll never learn. The EPA and the residents can sue Norfolk Southern and the corporatist lawyers will just tie it up in court for a generation, or two. Just ask the Alaskans how it turned out after the 1989 oil spill.

[ousdahl]

Well, I dunno if I already asked this, but, how do we distinguish capitalism from corporatism?

Especially at this point.

Re: “true capitalist behavior,” I think capitalism in itself has a tendency to inevitably evolve toward corporatism anyway.

It (not unrelated) also tends to value accumulation of wealth above all, even if short-sighted and loosing good will.

It also tends to concentrate power, up to and including corrupting gummint agencies and regulators and such, to the point gummint ends up serving capital rather than regulating it.

Capitalism views resources, nature, workers, everything, not as humans to protect or a natural world to preserve; but simply as more commodities to turn into more capital.

[Deleted User 863]

I think many of those statements you just made are untrue or oversimplified.

So, par for the course for Q.

[TDub]

Well, I dunno if I already asked this, but, how do we distinguish capitalism from corporatism?

Especially at this point.

Re: “true capitalist behavior,” I think capitalism in itself has a tendency to inevitably evolve toward corporatism anyway.

It (not unrelated) also tends to value accumulation of wealth above all, even if short-sighted and loosing good will.

It also tends to concentrate power, up to and including corrupting gummint agencies and regulators and such, to the point gummint ends up serving capital rather than regulating it.

Capitalism views resources, nature, workers, everything, not as humans to protect or a natural world to preserve; but simply as more commodities to turn into more capital.

corporatism puts blinders on and knocks people down to pick up every dime in their tunnel vision.

Capitalism looks over the field and realizes they can step over the dimes, or even drop some dimes along the way for others and pick up the dollars hanging up ahead.

[twocoach]

You really struggle with the concept of stock buybacks.

Norfolk Southern Corp is a publicly traded company.

What would you call it?

https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/22/investin ... ember%2031.

"In March 2022, Norfolk Southern (NSC) announced a new $10 billion share repurchase plan. Its latest annual financial report, filed just hours before the derailment this month, shows that it still had $7.5 billion available to buy additional shares under that repurchase plan as of December 31.

Norfolk Southern did not respond to questions Wednesday on whether it expects to change its share repurchase plans in the wake of the derailment.

The company also returned an additional $1.2 billion to shareholders in the form of dividend payments in 2022, and $1 billion in 2021, bringing total payments to shareholders to $4.6 billion last year and $4.1 billion in 2021.

The shareholders did much better than the company’s 19,000 employees. Total employee compensation in 2022 came to $2.6 billion, up from $2.4 billion in 2021."

Ok?

I didn't refute that stock buybacks occured, did I?

But thanks for the info.

It sounded like you were disputing that a stock buyback was what happened. Maybe you're just telling him to get over the fact that the company chose to enrich themselves and their shareholders rather than to spend some of their massive profits to have trains that wouldn't explode and poison the general public.

[Deleted User 863]

What would you call it?

https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/22/investin ... ember%2031.

"In March 2022, Norfolk Southern (NSC) announced a new $10 billion share repurchase plan. Its latest annual financial report, filed just hours before the derailment this month, shows that it still had $7.5 billion available to buy additional shares under that repurchase plan as of December 31.

Norfolk Southern did not respond to questions Wednesday on whether it expects to change its share repurchase plans in the wake of the derailment.

The company also returned an additional $1.2 billion to shareholders in the form of dividend payments in 2022, and $1 billion in 2021, bringing total payments to shareholders to $4.6 billion last year and $4.1 billion in 2021.

The shareholders did much better than the company’s 19,000 employees. Total employee compensation in 2022 came to $2.6 billion, up from $2.4 billion in 2021."

Ok?

I didn't refute that stock buybacks occured, did I?

But thanks for the info.

It sounded like you were disputing that a stock buyback was what happened. Maybe you're just telling him to get over the fact that the company chose to enrich themselves and their shareholders rather than to spend some of their massive profits to have trains that wouldn't explode and poison the general public.

No.

Just that the two things aren't directly related.


And that stock buybacks (and dividends) of publicly traded companies benefit anyone who owns that stock. Not just the few top executives that Q is envisioning.

[Shirley]

Ok?

I didn't refute that stock buybacks occured, did I?

But thanks for the info.

It sounded like you were disputing that a stock buyback was what happened. Maybe you're just telling him to get over the fact that the company chose to enrich themselves and their shareholders rather than to spend some of their massive profits to have trains that wouldn't explode and poison the general public.

^^^

Come on twocoach, what are you, a socialist? Why not "let business be business"?

As Illi points out below, "...stock buybacks...benefit anyone who owns" Norfolk Southern's stock. And if the residents of East Palestine, Ohio weren't smart enough to buy it, whose fault is that?
Hint: It's not Norfolk Southern's.

No.

Just that the two things aren't directly related.


And that stock buybacks (and dividends) of publicly traded companies benefit anyone who owns that stock. Not just the few top executives that Q is envisioning.

Nvidia reported earnings after the close last night. Their non-GAAP earnings were down 33% year over year. Half of that decline went to "stock-based compensation". Their stock was up 14% today.

[Deleted User 863]

Ok?

I didn't refute that stock buybacks occured, did I?

But thanks for the info.

It sounded like you were disputing that a stock buyback was what happened. Maybe you're just telling him to get over the fact that the company chose to enrich themselves and their shareholders rather than to spend some of their massive profits to have trains that wouldn't explode and poison the general public.

^^^

Come on twocoach, what are you, a socialist? Why not "let business be business"?

As Illi points out below, "...stock buybacks...benefit anyone who owns" Norfolk Southern's stock. And if the residents of East Palestine, Ohio weren't smart enough to buy it, whose fault is that?
Hint: It's not Norfolk Southern's.

No.

Just that the two things aren't directly related.


And that stock buybacks (and dividends) of publicly traded companies benefit anyone who owns that stock. Not just the few top executives that Q is envisioning.

Nvidia reported earnings after the close last night. Their non-GAAP earnings were down 33% year over year. Half of that decline went to "stock-based compensation". Their stock was up 14% today.

Norfolk Southern should be held responsible for the mess they created in Ohio.

Reports are it was entirely preventable.

Entirely preventable regardless of any stock buybacks.

This accident wasn't caused by stock buybacks.

[Shirley]

That you consider repeating that pablum a response, is sad.

[Deleted User 863]

pablum

Great word!

You win.

[Mjl]

It just seems like some of that cash used as stock buybacks (which has little effect beyond juicing stock value?) would have been better invested in basic maintenance and upkeep, so as to prevent things like derailments and subsequent environmental disasters.

But why invest in basic maintenance and upkeep when you could enjoy profits instead!

#Capitalism

Again, you seem to struggle with the concept of stock buybacks, both in purpose and who they benefit.

I struggle with the concept of stock buybacks, and have had them explained several times.

The market cap stays the same theoretically because share value goes up to match the lower number of shares. But the company now has less cash and thus lower book value, right?

(Yes, I'm straying from the actual point)

[Shirley]

How Buybacks Warp the Price-to-Book Ratio

Share buybacks (repurchases) can be a boost to corporate earnings per share (EPS), but can be a drag on book value growth. Many investors use the price-to-book (P/B) ratio to find undervalued stocks, and this is where they can run into valuation problems when companies carry out buybacks. Companies that regularly reduce their share count through repurchases may thus appear overvalued on a book value basis.

This article will examine why buybacks have a favorable result for EPS growth but typically lower the book value per share (BVPS), slowing the growth of this asset-based measure.

KEY TAKEAWAYS
Share buybacks (repurchases) tend to boost earnings per share (EPS) but slow book value growth.

When shares are repurchased above the current book value per share, it lowers the book value per share.

Buybacks reduce the shares outstanding, which results in a company looking overvalued.

A cash buyback results in a decrease in cash assets and therefore a decrease in shareholders' equity on the balance sheet, with no corresponding gain in other assets.

Investors should look at growth in EPS and return on equity (ROE), as well as price-to-book value, in light of any artificial effects from buybacks...

[Shirley]

Dec 8, 2017 The Trump administration has angered environmental groups and residents of the Columbia River Gorge by rolling back a 2015 Obama Administration rule on oil trains

The Trump administration has finalized a roll back of Obama-era regulations for oil trains.

The rules, which date back to 2015, required railroads carrying crude oil or other flammable liquids to outfit their trains with more responsive electronic braking systems. The rules came in response to concerns about explosions and spills from mile-long trains of crude and ethanol. In the Northwest, those trains move along the Columbia River and through cities to coastal refineries.

The U.S. Department of Transportation, which has been working on rescinding the rules since last December, said in statement this week that its analysis showed the cost of requiring railroads to equip trains with the new brakes outweighed the potential benefits.

[twocoach]

Dec 8, 2017 The Trump administration has angered environmental groups and residents of the Columbia River Gorge by rolling back a 2015 Obama Administration rule on oil trains

The Trump administration has finalized a roll back of Obama-era regulations for oil trains.

The rules, which date back to 2015, required railroads carrying crude oil or other flammable liquids to outfit their trains with more responsive electronic braking systems. The rules came in response to concerns about explosions and spills from mile-long trains of crude and ethanol. In the Northwest, those trains move along the Columbia River and through cities to coastal refineries.

The U.S. Department of Transportation, which has been working on rescinding the rules since last December, said in statement this week that its analysis showed the cost of requiring railroads to equip trains with the new brakes outweighed the potential benefits.

I'll bet Norfolk Southern would have spent less on upgrading their brakes than they will spend on this disaster.

[Shirley]

I'll bet Norfolk Southern would have spent less on upgrading their brakes than they will spend on this disaster.

Probably so. But, sadly, a stock analyst I follow doesn't think this will have a material impact on the co.

With our government for sale to the highest bidder as it is, it will be interesting to see how effectively NSC has managed to insulate itself from the vagaries of the business they're in, after all their, and others, endless lobbying and donations focused on mitigating, i.e., socializing, the risks, while privatizing the profits.

It's like the unWoke American way!

[Mjl]

How Buybacks Warp the Price-to-Book Ratio

Share buybacks (repurchases) can be a boost to corporate earnings per share (EPS), but can be a drag on book value growth. Many investors use the price-to-book (P/B) ratio to find undervalued stocks, and this is where they can run into valuation problems when companies carry out buybacks. Companies that regularly reduce their share count through repurchases may thus appear overvalued on a book value basis.

This article will examine why buybacks have a favorable result for EPS growth but typically lower the book value per share (BVPS), slowing the growth of this asset-based measure.

KEY TAKEAWAYS
Share buybacks (repurchases) tend to boost earnings per share (EPS) but slow book value growth.

When shares are repurchased above the current book value per share, it lowers the book value per share.

Buybacks reduce the shares outstanding, which results in a company looking overvalued.

A cash buyback results in a decrease in cash assets and therefore a decrease in shareholders' equity on the balance sheet, with no corresponding gain in other assets.

Investors should look at growth in EPS and return on equity (ROE), as well as price-to-book value, in light of any artificial effects from buybacks...

Yes, that's a more thorough version of exactly what I was saying. Strikes me as a zero sum game.

[DCHawk1]

How Buybacks Warp the Price-to-Book Ratio

Share buybacks (repurchases) can be a boost to corporate earnings per share (EPS), but can be a drag on book value growth. Many investors use the price-to-book (P/B) ratio to find undervalued stocks, and this is where they can run into valuation problems when companies carry out buybacks. Companies that regularly reduce their share count through repurchases may thus appear overvalued on a book value basis.

This article will examine why buybacks have a favorable result for EPS growth but typically lower the book value per share (BVPS), slowing the growth of this asset-based measure.

KEY TAKEAWAYS
Share buybacks (repurchases) tend to boost earnings per share (EPS) but slow book value growth.

When shares are repurchased above the current book value per share, it lowers the book value per share.

Buybacks reduce the shares outstanding, which results in a company looking overvalued.

A cash buyback results in a decrease in cash assets and therefore a decrease in shareholders' equity on the balance sheet, with no corresponding gain in other assets.

Investors should look at growth in EPS and return on equity (ROE), as well as price-to-book value, in light of any artificial effects from buybacks...

Yes, that's a more thorough version of exactly what I was saying. Strikes me as a zero sum game.

Unfortunately, it's not a zero sum game in many (maybe even most?) cases right now, as the additional shares are often "sanitized" and used to reward senior management.

Buybacks are good and reasonable in principle, but they require capitalists who aren't manifestly corrupt.

[KUTradition]

so, no mention of mccarthy giving tucker, and only tucker, access to more than 40,000k hours of jan. 6 footage?

[Shirley]

so, no mention of mccarthy giving tucker, and only tucker, access to more than 40,000k hours of jan. 6 footage?

The aggrieved insurrectionists are so intent, it's impossible to keep up.