Kansas Crimson

jfish26 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:44 pm

Antifa will go to any length necessary to make themselves look like white nationalist Trump supporters.


But this WaPo headline is very misleading. Being on a watchlist doesn't mean your under any type of surveillance or are prevented from going anywhere. I don't think that this gathering would set off alarms unless there was some critical mass of them getting speeding tickets or something. It's not the same as the no-fly list and there are like 1.8 million names in the database. We can't exactly keep tabs on all these guys.

Well, it sounds like we do. In any case, I don't think it will surprise anyone who has been paying attention that white supremacists will be disproportionately represented among Stop the Steal rioters.

The fact is that the GOP has had to make common cause with these evil people, in order to even stay relevant.

jfish26 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:25 pm Well, it sounds like we do. In any case, I don't think it will surprise anyone who has been paying attention that white supremacists will be disproportionately represented among Stop the Steal rioters.

The fact is that the GOP has had to make common cause with these evil people, in order to even stay relevant.

They've increasingly made common-cause with them for the last 50+ years, but just in the shadows and not really acknowledged out in the open. The primary difference is that since the birther movement and the Tea Party is that it became more mainstream. And Trump turned it all the way up to 11.

“Being on a watchlist doesn't mean your under any type of surveillance“

Well, it kind of does, don’t it?

Perhaps the distinction is whether they were being actively surveilled. Even if they weren’t, at some point they still did something dumb enough to get their name on a watch list.

(I didn’t/can’t read the article without a subscription)

jfish26 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:25 pm Well, it sounds like we do. In any case, I don't think it will surprise anyone who has been paying attention that white supremacists will be disproportionately represented among Stop the Steal rioters.

The fact is that the GOP has had to make common cause with these evil people, in order to even stay relevant.

Sure we keep tabs on them when they do something. It's reactive more than proactive.

I guess my point was, this shouldn't be classified as an intelligence failure, but instead a limitation, or at worst a weakness. If a person on the list drove from Arkansas to DC, there was no tracker on him, no ping on his phone, no one following him in an unmarked car....But when he got arrested, it would have come up.

Bringing these pieces of shit under the GOP umbrella was the biggest and most short-sided mistake the party has made.

ousdahl wrote: ↑Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:08 pm “Being on a watchlist doesn't mean your under any type of surveillance“

Well, it kind of does, don’t it?

Perhaps the distinction is whether they were being actively surveilled. Even if they weren’t, at some point they still did something dumb enough to get their name on a watch list.

(I didn’t/can’t read the article without a subscription)

No. Surveillance means close observation. This is more like, a general awareness than a close observation. No one's on stake out on them, normally, there phones aren't tapped, they're not on a no fly list, etc.

Even from the WaPo article that you chose to comment on without reading:

Still, the revelation underscores the limitations of such watch lists. Although they are meant to improve information gathering and sharing among investigative agencies, they are far from a foolproof means of detecting threats ahead of time...Placing someone’s name on the watch list does not mean they will be watched all of the time, or even much of the time, for reasons of both practicality and fairness, but it can alert different parts of the government, such as border agents or state police, to look more closely at certain individuals they encounter.

Also, you'd be at the front of the line bitching and moaning if the FBI ever crossed the line in anyway. But when they follow the rules, you're the first one to call it a failure.

Go figure.

Oh thanks for posting that part of the article.

Doesn’t it seem to suggest that placing someone’s name on a watch list may get them surveilled at least some of the time? Even if not much or all of the time.

If they aren’t gonna give a little extra attention to those who warrant being on a watch list, what’s the point of even having a watch list?

But you’re right, I do have privacy and other concerns. I guess I’m operating under the assumption that you really do have to be dumb to end up on an fbi watch list either way.

Heck, maybe I’m on an fbi watch list!

But then again, I have no intentions of violently overtaking a gummint building.

ousdahl wrote: ↑Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:30 pm
If they aren’t gonna give a little extra attention to those who warrant being on a watch list, what’s the point of even having a watch list?

Let's say the neighbor of someone on the watch list complains about weird noises and smells coming out of the person's garage,

Or, let's say the wife of someone on the list complains that her husband is behaving erratically and making crazy threats.

In either case, you're going to take it a lot more seriously, and probably act with more caution and more manpower, etc. when you deal with the threat.

That's just ONE example, I'm sure there are lots of others.

As far as them being surveilled, no, I don't believe they are unless there's a specific reason to do so. It may be that being on this list makes getting a warrant to do surveillance or open a wire tap, etc, is a little easier, but I don't know that for sure.

Kyle Rittenhouse violated his parole by consorting with the Proud Boys. Flashing White Power sign too. Lobster would be so proud

so, did nobody make the connection that folks on these watch lists were also on social media “planning” the assault on the capitol?

i find it hard to believe there was zero overlap

It wasn't all Trumpists and white nationalists. Not sure how many or few were like this guy.

https://sltrib.com/news/2021/01/14/utah ... ho-was-us/

definitely a confluence of a number of factions, but all with a common, underlying trend

ideas built on lies

TraditionKU wrote: ↑Fri Jan 15, 2021 1:24 pm definitely a confluence of a number of factions, but all with a common, underlying trend

ideas built on lies

What lies in the case I posted? He and whoever he was with were not election-truthers

Mjl wrote: ↑Fri Jan 15, 2021 1:29 pm

TraditionKU wrote: ↑Fri Jan 15, 2021 1:24 pm definitely a confluence of a number of factions, but all with a common, underlying trend

ideas built on lies

What lies in the case I posted? He and whoever he was with were not election-truthers

there was an extended story about him on the local news this morning

i’ll admit to not knowing his full details, but “his story” is definitely not the truth. he wasn’t just trying to blend in to record history. there were numerous, pre-insurrection images of him decked out in militant gear. it wouldn’t surprise me at all if he is more associated with the antifa movement than anything else.

i could be wrong

i’ll also add that it wasn’t just election truthers participating, or rather that wasn’t the only reason many were participating. there’s supposed to be a story in the New Yorker (haven’t had tome to find it) that talks about anti-government folks like the Bundy’s (the ones that occupied the wildlife refuge) whose sentiment was every bit as much a part of the insurrection as the election truthers’ (and i’m sure there’s much overlap)

not the New Yorker piece...maybe i’m mistaken about the source, but i think this is the story i heard that references it

https://radiowest.kuer.org/post/How-amm ... -extremism

it’s public radio, so...

Mjl wrote: ↑Fri Jan 15, 2021 1:08 pm It wasn't all Trumpists and white nationalists. Not sure how many or few were like this guy.

https://sltrib.com/news/2021/01/14/utah ... ho-was-us/

this puts a slightly different spin on who he is

https://www.ksl.com/article/50088017/ut ... pitol-riot

Interesting. I figured the Utahian would know more about it than me.

Mjl wrote: ↑Fri Jan 15, 2021 5:02 pm Interesting. I figured the Utahian would know more about it than me.

i don’t know that KSL is right, tho

many/most of my non-Mormon friends despise KSL due to its bias. i prefer their newscasters, but for reading the SL Trib is often a better source and the one i tend to go with when i’m not watching the news

edit: local public radio just referred to him as a left-wing activist

It’s kind of ironic, ain’t it?

If he’s a left wing activist who wants Trump out, how about just not obstructing the electoral vote count?

ousdahl wrote: ↑Fri Jan 15, 2021 5:47 pm It’s kind of ironic, ain’t it?

If he’s a left wing activist who wants Trump out, how about just not obstructing the electoral vote count?

have you seen his mug shot?

i think you might be giving his mental prowess too much credit