Kansas Crimson

pdub wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2024 9:13 am

BiggDick wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2024 9:10 amwut?

Perry Ellis lacked the things you mentioned and became a college stud.
Brannen ended up, before they each played a minute for KU, ranked the higher recruit than Perry.
I think Perry bought in and put in the work and Brannen did not ( hence why he didn't develop ).

BG also had zero interest in playing D, which, in my mind, ultimately limited his total minutes and on-court development

KUTradition wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2024 9:39 am

pdub wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2024 9:13 am

BiggDick wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2024 9:10 amwut?

Perry Ellis lacked the things you mentioned and became a college stud.
Brannen ended up, before they each played a minute for KU, ranked the higher recruit than Perry.
I think Perry bought in and put in the work and Brannen did not ( hence why he didn't develop ).

BG also had zero interest in playing D, which, in my mind, ultimately limited his total minutes and on-court development

Definitely.

Defense? BG smokes trees and shoots 3s, that man ain't got time to play no defense

Take Brannen Greene with Frank Mason's work ethic ( Brannen with Frank's ethic isn't a nut job so he doesn't bounce early to the NBA lolz ) and we win back to back titles in 16 and 17.

at the expense of whose minutes tho?

Some combo of Selden and Graham. Maybe Perry too, since it might not be a total stretch to suggest a better Brannen as a small ball 4?

That sounds goofy. But bear in mind we're running a hypo here in which Brannen Greene is NOT crazy.

And all craziness and work ethic and such aside, I just dunno if there's much of anything that was ever gonna change the fact Greene was just an inert shooter all along.

pdub wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2024 10:36 am Take Brannen Greene with Frank Mason's work ethic ( Brannen with Frank's ethic isn't a nut job so he doesn't bounce early to the NBA lolz ) and we win back to back titles in 16 and 17.

It's honestly infuriating to think about Brannen greenes potential....

The hypothetical player you are describing is basically klay thompson

what player are you guys remembering?

What amount of work ethic and head-on-straight is gonna suddenly give Brannen Green some Klay Thompson athleticism?

You guys?

pdub wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2024 11:15 amYou guys?

LOL

Klay is (was) good at defense... and was raised by a professional athlete parent. Not hard to figure out why he turned out the way he has.


I'd said Greene was some work ethic away from being Svi. That is much more realistic.

Svi too was/is a much better athlete than Greene.

Well, Greene could dunk it with the game clock running out (against K-State). Still had the prettiest jumper I have ever seen.

AlOerter wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2024 11:39 am Well, Greene could dunk it with the game clock running out (against K-State). Still had the prettiest jumper I have ever seen.

Dunno, Ben's was gorgeous. And Dick's was probably the most textbook.

BiggDick wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2024 11:33 am Svi too was/is a much better athlete than Greene.

I would not say much, no.

BiggDick wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2024 11:09 am what player are you guys remembering?

What amount of work ethic and head-on-straight is gonna suddenly give Brannen Green some Klay Thompson athleticism?

They were very similar prospects. With very different mindsets

Klay: 53rd overall recruit

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/bas ... y-thompson

Branne greene: 47th overall recruit

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/bas ... nen-greene


As mentioned recently in another thread... people put too much weight on professional accolades when comparing college players. Klay worked his ass off over time to improve his athleticism, while BG was content with smoking too much and chillin. Neither was a freakish athlete, just shooters with good size

pdub wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2024 12:11 pm

BiggDick wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2024 11:33 am Svi too was/is a much better athlete than Greene.

I would not say much, no.

Svi did not run much faster, if any. And he did not jump much higher, if any.

DeletedUser wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2024 12:42 pm

pdub wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2024 12:11 pm

BiggDick wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2024 11:33 am Svi too was/is a much better athlete than Greene.

I would not say much, no.

Svi did not run much faster, if any. And he did not jump much higher, if any.

Svi definitely put in the work on his physique while he was here though.
I think it's another example of the 'tude that Brannen went with that didn't get him where he could have been.

pdub wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2024 12:50 pm

DeletedUser wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2024 12:42 pm

pdub wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2024 12:11 pm

I would not say much, no.

Svi did not run much faster, if any. And he did not jump much higher, if any.

Svi definitely put in the work on his physique while he was here though.
I think it's another example of the 'tude that Brannen went with that didn't get him where he could have been.

Absolutely

And why Svi is still on an NBA roster.

I mean, of course Greene could have improved his athleticism with better work ethic and training, sure.

And I don't disagree one bit that his work ethic left a lot to be desired!

But I still dunno if he was ever naturally talented enough athletically - which is to say, moved well enough from day 1 - to suggest he would have ever sniffed an NBA roster, let alone garnered NBA all star (or even NBA journeyman) sorts of comparisons.

Since we're going down memory lane with so many lineups besides this one, let's throw this name out here:

Andrew White.

I remember him being a better athlete than Greene from day 1, similar game and size, and he DID have the work ethic and focus. Even then, he couldn't crack the rotation in 2 years here, and transferred out of the program - ironically enough, around the same time Brannen Greene came into the program.

And credit White for actually sniffing an NBA roster, but only just. I attribute that largely to his work ethic, but also being a good enough athlete to begin with too.

I kinda feel like you guys are not remembering just how stiff Greene moved. He was like the Cliff Alexander of wings.

If you go back to the convo that I had started about Greene, you'll notice I say nothing about his prospects as a pro but rather that he could have been a college stud.

And he could have been -- you don't need to be an elite athlete to be the very best in college -- my original example being Perry Ellis.

pdub wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2024 1:55 pm If you go back to the convo that I had started about Greene, you'll notice I say nothing about his prospects as a pro but rather that he could have been a college stud.

And he could have been -- you don't need to be an elite athlete to be the very best in college -- my original example being Perry Ellis.

What kinda skews things is this weird selection bias that actually favors sub-elite athleticism in terms of being “the very best in college.”

I think we’d all agree that experience - not just game minutes, but physical and mental maturity - is something that helps toward a college basketball player being among “the very best in college.”

Overwhelming physical ability - athleticism and physical traits - tends to mean that you get plucked by the NBA before you’ve got more than a couple years of experience.

It’s not a black and white thing, by any means. But nor is it a coincidence, in my opinion, that the list of our very best guys under Bill is dotted with very average athletes (relatively speaking). Examples like Thomas and Ochai are outnumbered by examples like Sherron, Cole, Marcus, Perry, Frank, Devonte, Jalen and Hunter.