Kansas Crimson

I still think the secondary charge is fine.
Stay in control if you're attacking the basket.

BUT I think that it should be pounded into officials brains, and maybe the language is changed ( much like they did with hand checking, which I didn't/don't agree with the change ), that the player has to be fully established - as in, no debate.

If there's a debate, the officials should be quick to call a block - i.e. that guys feet have been in place a step or two ( from the attacker ) before the collision.

We're probably saying similar things, but I'd get rid of the secondary charge. I'd still have the option of a player control foul though. So, in the scenario your talking about where you have the secondary defender just standing there and the offensive player plows him over, you call the player control foul. But goddam we gotta stop rewarding a guy from sliding over last second to take a charge on what is otherwise a good offensive play.

I'd also be conservative with what I deemed to be a secondary defender. I mean, if you beat your guy off the dribble 6 feet behind the top of the key, and then a defender on the block meets you just under the FT line, he has become the primary defender.

I'd also make it a point of emphasis to stop calling as many charges when guys pass the ball and their momentum carries them into the defender. I've seen plays where the player passes the ball, and then takes 2-3 steps forward and some defender flops from contact. Get that shit outta here. Quit awarding (borrowing from Sparko) inert non-athletic plays.

And really start cracking down on flopping.

"I'd also make it a point of emphasis to stop calling as many charges when guys pass the ball and their momentum carries them into the defender. I've seen plays where the player passes the ball, and then takes 2-3 steps forward and some defender flops from contact. Get that shit outta here. Quit awarding (borrowing from Sparko) inert non-athletic plays"

Definitely this.

"But goddam we gotta stop rewarding a guy from sliding over last second to take a charge on what is otherwise a good offensive play."

Agree - though i still think if you are tactical about it, you could still deploy this against a well known overly aggressive ball handler. Couldn't be lastsecond but still could be an option. I don't think it should just be eliminated from defensive strategies - players should still understand they can't just wildly drive to the basket and expect a clear path.

NDballer13 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 8:45 am

Cascadia wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 11:16 pm This tournament has been littered with garbage offensive performances.

51 points gets you to the Final Four? Gross.

Maybe I'm reaching too much here, but I think a portion of the bad offense can be attributed to the disproportionate amount of charge calls to blocking fouls. The 3 has obviously been a big change in recent years, but combine that with a player being called for a charge every time they drive and a defender goes down. Why would they keep trying to get to the hoop?

I don't think you're reaching at all. The number of charging calls given to unathletic white guys is disgusting. It's literally ruining the game.

Another problem is bad (or no) coaching. Being squeezed by AAU and NBA is killing college coaches in that kids can't handle criticism. They receive little to no coaching in AAU ball and the NBA has taught them freedom of movement. Coach to hard on you? Not getting the playing time you want? Not playing the position you want? TRANSFER! I'm not against the transferring, it's their life, they should do what the want. But the byproduct is a watered down product for consumers.

And, again, most offenses (ours included) are simple and boring.

pdub wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:06 am "I'd also make it a point of emphasis to stop calling as many charges when guys pass the ball and their momentum carries them into the defender. I've seen plays where the player passes the ball, and then takes 2-3 steps forward and some defender flops from contact. Get that shit outta here. Quit awarding (borrowing from Sparko) inert non-athletic plays"

Definitely this.

"But goddam we gotta stop rewarding a guy from sliding over last second to take a charge on what is otherwise a good offensive play."

Agree - though i still think if you are tactical about it, you could still deploy this against a well known overly aggressive ball handler. Couldn't be lastsecond but still could be an option. I don't think it should just be eliminated from defensive strategies - players should still understand they can't just wildly drive to the basket and expect a clear path.

Hence the player control foul.

Cascadia wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:25 am

NDballer13 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 8:45 am

Cascadia wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 11:16 pm This tournament has been littered with garbage offensive performances.

51 points gets you to the Final Four? Gross.

Maybe I'm reaching too much here, but I think a portion of the bad offense can be attributed to the disproportionate amount of charge calls to blocking fouls. The 3 has obviously been a big change in recent years, but combine that with a player being called for a charge every time they drive and a defender goes down. Why would they keep trying to get to the hoop?

I don't think you're reaching at all. The number of charging calls given to unathletic white guys is disgusting. It's literally ruining the game.

Another problem is bad (or no) coaching. Being squeezed by AAU and NBA is killing college coaches in that kids can't handle criticism. They receive little to no coaching in AAU ball and the NBA has taught them freedom of movement. Coach to hard on you? Not getting the playing time you want? Not playing the position you want? TRANSFER! I'm not against the transferring, it's their life, they should do what the want. But the byproduct is a watered down product for consumers.

And, again, most offenses (ours included) are simple and boring.

I think college coaches want to mimic the NBA but forget that with a 30 second shot clock, you can have a more complex offense in college than the NBA.

Cascadia wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:25 am

NDballer13 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 8:45 am

Cascadia wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 11:16 pm This tournament has been littered with garbage offensive performances.

51 points gets you to the Final Four? Gross.

Maybe I'm reaching too much here, but I think a portion of the bad offense can be attributed to the disproportionate amount of charge calls to blocking fouls. The 3 has obviously been a big change in recent years, but combine that with a player being called for a charge every time they drive and a defender goes down. Why would they keep trying to get to the hoop?

I don't think you're reaching at all. The number of charging calls given to unathletic white guys is disgusting. It's literally ruining the game.

Another problem is bad (or no) coaching. Being squeezed by AAU and NBA is killing college coaches in that kids can't handle criticism. They receive little to no coaching in AAU ball and the NBA has taught them freedom of movement. Coach to hard on you? Not getting the playing time you want? Not playing the position you want? TRANSFER! I'm not against the transferring, it's their life, they should do what the want. But the byproduct is a watered down product for consumers.

And, again, most offenses (ours included) are simple and boring.

I posted this yesterday, but I am starting to think the academies are as bad if not worse than the AAU programs. No team offense is being taught at all. It's also negatively affecting the NBA game.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:51 am

Cascadia wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:25 am

NDballer13 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 8:45 am

Maybe I'm reaching too much here, but I think a portion of the bad offense can be attributed to the disproportionate amount of charge calls to blocking fouls. The 3 has obviously been a big change in recent years, but combine that with a player being called for a charge every time they drive and a defender goes down. Why would they keep trying to get to the hoop?

I don't think you're reaching at all. The number of charging calls given to unathletic white guys is disgusting. It's literally ruining the game.

Another problem is bad (or no) coaching. Being squeezed by AAU and NBA is killing college coaches in that kids can't handle criticism. They receive little to no coaching in AAU ball and the NBA has taught them freedom of movement. Coach to hard on you? Not getting the playing time you want? Not playing the position you want? TRANSFER! I'm not against the transferring, it's their life, they should do what the want. But the byproduct is a watered down product for consumers.

And, again, most offenses (ours included) are simple and boring.

I posted this yesterday, but I am starting to think the academies are as bad if not worse than the AAU programs. No team offense is being taught at all. It's also negatively affecting the NBA game.

100% agree.

I think the quality of basketball (at all levels) is the worst I've ever seen. Which is sad, because athleticism and (potentially) skill is at an all time high. Offenses are boring and officiating is terrible. In college you have too many charges, in the NBA you have too many touch fouls. Flopping is plaguing both.

Cascadia wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:54 am

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:51 am

Cascadia wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:25 am


I don't think you're reaching at all. The number of charging calls given to unathletic white guys is disgusting. It's literally ruining the game.

Another problem is bad (or no) coaching. Being squeezed by AAU and NBA is killing college coaches in that kids can't handle criticism. They receive little to no coaching in AAU ball and the NBA has taught them freedom of movement. Coach to hard on you? Not getting the playing time you want? Not playing the position you want? TRANSFER! I'm not against the transferring, it's their life, they should do what the want. But the byproduct is a watered down product for consumers.

And, again, most offenses (ours included) are simple and boring.

I posted this yesterday, but I am starting to think the academies are as bad if not worse than the AAU programs. No team offense is being taught at all. It's also negatively affecting the NBA game.

100% agree.

I think the quality of basketball (at all levels) is the worst I've ever seen. Which is sad, because athleticism and (potentially) skill is at an all time high. Offenses are boring and officiating is terrible. In college you have too many charges, in the NBA you have too many touch fouls. Flopping is plaguing both.

In the end, coaches at all levels are paid to score points and win games. When you get together 5-10 players that are good enough to play D-1, or at least above the rim, the players now are so GD athletic and talented that you don't need to do much more than run PnR as it leads to a layup, lob, foul, or open 3.

I don't know the fix, but when you watch someone like LaMelo play, you have to think the only thing that's holding that back from being a rookie all-star is no defense at all, no instruction on offensive sets--too many PnR's with a step back "CURRY!!!" shot at high school age.

NDballer13 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 8:45 am

Cascadia wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 11:16 pm This tournament has been littered with garbage offensive performances.

51 points gets you to the Final Four? Gross.

Maybe I'm reaching too much here, but I think a portion of the bad offense can be attributed to the disproportionate amount of charge calls to blocking fouls. The 3 has obviously been a big change in recent years, but combine that with a player being called for a charge every time they drive and a defender goes down. Why would they keep trying to get to the hoop?

It's infuriating and inconsistent. I remember that was a point of emphasis around 7ish years to call a block if the guy isn't set when the offensive player starts their motion, but it seemed to be forgotten after a couple years.

pdub wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 5:52 am PAC12, Big12, AAC, WCC.
Go Baylor.

Yep. I hope they can beat the Zags.

From the time I was 3 until I was accepted to KU (at age 17) I was a huge UCLA fan and UCLA was my dream school. I have probably spent 100 hours on the UCLA campus. If not more.
Today, I really couldn't care less if the Bruins win or lose.
I laugh when I think that if you only counted UCLA's 1995 Championship, they would still have 100% more Mens NCAA Basketball championships than all the other 3 Final Four teams combined.
Meanwhile, I believe the 83 and 84 Houston teams would beat any of these 4 Final Four teams by 20 points on a consistent basis.
I honestly can't figure out who I want to win the 2021 Championship but I do know if Houston beats Baylor, Gonzaga beats UCLA, and then Gonzaga beats Houston - I win a little bit of money. So that's probably what I am going to hope happens.

I am pulling for Grimes and Houston.

Next UCLA because who doesn't love a good Cinderella story, right?

Then Gonzaga.

Then Baylor. If it was ANY other big 12 school i would have them at the top of the list because the big 12 NEEDS someone other than Kansas to win a natty....but i don't like scott drew.

if not KU, than i’d rather the program with less history and championships (unless it’s misery...never misery)

TraditionKU wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:06 pm if not KU, than i’d rather the program with less history and championships (unless it’s misery...never misery)

Gonzaga deserves it. They're the best team. And Mark Few seems to be a good dude. They're a respectable program with very little drama/controversy. If they pull it off it will have been well earned after many years of hard work, good teams, and close/not so close calls.

I hope this is the year Scott Drew isn't Scott Drew.

I agree on Gonzaga.
It's about time the goofy headband wearing white guys win something.

I mean, Jackie Moon was the last......right?

SPUMONI!!

Overlander wrote: ↑Thu Apr 01, 2021 8:23 pm I agree on Gonzaga.
It's about time the goofy headband wearing white guys win something.

I mean, Jackie Moon was the last......right?

Everybody Love Everybody!

Baylor putting the absolute beats on the fighting Kelvins