Kansas Crimson

KUTradition wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 9:27 am

TDub wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 9:10 am Im not entirely sure it matters tremendously at this point....other than to prove an I gotcha point to the other "team"

it absolutely matters if “we” have any desire at all to prevent or more successfully mitigate such things in the future

and that holds true regardless of what actually happened

i presume that, globally, labs dealing with infectious diseases have taken a long look at their protocols in response to the possibility that this stemmed from a lab leak

i’m not so sure the same can be said for our interfaces with wildlife…which is fucking absurd given that we know with absolute certainty that such spillovers have occurred via that route in the past

Of course I agree with this. If the earth is hit by something from space, it's pretty damn relevant to figure out if it was a man-made object that fell out of orbit, an asteroid, a comet, calcified alien shit, or other.

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 11:17 am

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 11:10 am

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 10:59 am Meh.

We should be working to prevent both things regardless.

The sides are quite clear at this point. It's why you and PhD run here with anything that says it's possibly from an animal and Randy runs here with anything that says it's possibly from a lab.

Pay closer attention dipshit.

I have no vested interest in protecting China.

I don't think it was a bioweapon because the sequence confirms it wasn't and every intelligence agency agrees.

It also wasn't a result of the NIH funded research that was controversial. These are verifiable.

It absolutely could be a lab leak of a naturally existing virus.

The article I posted yesterday was relevant to the discussion and didn’t necessarily represent my opinion.

You have a vested interest in Randy not being correct. That's why it's clear you're hoping it is from an animal. And fighting for your "team".


And "every intelligence agency" apparently doesn't agree.


Go teams!

Let us normal people know when your fucked up game is over and who wins.

This is your problem. You don't understand the difference between a lab leak and manufacturing a bioweapon. None think it was a bioweapon, even the department of energy who recently said a lab leak was likely.

This isn't a political issue for me. Microbiology is my career.

To be honest, I wish the NIH and all funding agencies would stop funding foreign labs altogether. Hell, I'd be fine if they stopped funding PIs with dual appointments in foreign countries.

defixione wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 11:17 am

MICHHAWK wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 11:05 am their mission is "own the pubs."

"Owning the pubs" isn't that difficult. All one has to do is wake up in the morning.

mich demonstrates as much with regularity

randylahey wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 11:36 am

https://abcnews.go.com/amp/Health/fda-c ... d=97824051

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 11:24 am

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 11:17 am

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 11:10 am
Pay closer attention dipshit.

I have no vested interest in protecting China.

I don't think it was a bioweapon because the sequence confirms it wasn't and every intelligence agency agrees.

It also wasn't a result of the NIH funded research that was controversial. These are verifiable.

It absolutely could be a lab leak of a naturally existing virus.

The article I posted yesterday was relevant to the discussion and didn’t necessarily represent my opinion.

You have a vested interest in Randy not being correct. That's why it's clear you're hoping it is from an animal. And fighting for your "team".


And "every intelligence agency" apparently doesn't agree.


Go teams!

Let us normal people know when your fucked up game is over and who wins.

This is your problem. You don't understand the difference between a lab leak and manufacturing a bioweapon.

Oh please. Everyone understands the difference between those two things. And the differences in how they would/should be viewed by the rest of the world.

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 11:40 am

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 11:24 am

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 11:17 am

You have a vested interest in Randy not being correct. That's why it's clear you're hoping it is from an animal. And fighting for your "team".


And "every intelligence agency" apparently doesn't agree.


Go teams!

Let us normal people know when your fucked up game is over and who wins.

This is your problem. You don't understand the difference between a lab leak and manufacturing a bioweapon.

Oh please. Everyone understands the difference between those two things. And the differences in how they would/should be viewed by the rest of the world.

Then you just purposefully misrepresented me.

surprise, surprise

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 11:44 am

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 11:40 am

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 11:24 am
This is your problem. You don't understand the difference between a lab leak and manufacturing a bioweapon.

Oh please. Everyone understands the difference between those two things. And the differences in how they would/should be viewed by the rest of the world.

Then you just purposefully misrepresented me.

Felt kind of like that's what you did/do to me.

Honestly, I'm more interested, biologically, in the origins of omicron. But this probably isn't the best forum.

But I'm sorry. "Everyone understands the difference", just isn't true. The second the article about the Dept of E. was posted, we had people connecting it to the NIH funded work and bioterrorism....even though the article said explicitly the opposite. And misinformation does bother me.

Here ya go Illy.

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/arc ... ak/673390/

To be fair about it:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes ... arket/amp/

This article points out some flaws....to be fair and balanced.

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 12:08 pm Honestly, I'm more interested, biologically, in the origins of omicron. But this probably isn't the best forum.

But I'm sorry. "Everyone understands the difference", just isn't true. The second the article about the Dept of E. was posted, we had people connecting it to the NIH funded work and bioterrorism....even though the article said explicitly the opposite. And misinformation does bother me.

Why is that? Is it different from typical mutations you'd find in a virus?

Mjl wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 12:23 pm

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 12:08 pm Honestly, I'm more interested, biologically, in the origins of omicron. But this probably isn't the best forum.

But I'm sorry. "Everyone understands the difference", just isn't true. The second the article about the Dept of E. was posted, we had people connecting it to the NIH funded work and bioterrorism....even though the article said explicitly the opposite. And misinformation does bother me.

Why is that? Is it different from typical mutations you'd find in a virus?

Sort of.

Mutations occur sequentially, so a new mutant would have all the mutations of the parental strain. Also, they occur at a predictable rate. So you can establish evolutionary relationships based on number of mutations. So, the more mutations the more distantly related the strains are.

Omicron, was not in the same lineage as the previous variants. Whereas beta evolved from alpha and delta from beta. Omicron us from a different lineage. It emerged much earlier. It has many mutations (meaning it's been around a long time) and they're different than the other variants (it didn't come from that lineage).

There are 3 primary theories.
1. It was in an immunocompromised person for a long period of time being hypermutated.
2. It was in a small isolated group of people that weren't being frequently tested or sequenced, which is possible in Africa where it emerged.
3. It crossed over from people to an animal and then back. There is sequence evidence suggesting this happened in a mouse. The mutations you'd expect to be selected for in mouse, are what's found in omicron.

But, how did a hyperinfectious strain remain hidden long enough to acquire that many unique mutations?

Goddammit trad

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 12:38 pmGoddammit trad

sorry

wasn’t trying to speak for you specifically

Nah, I'm mad at myself for typing a book instead of just posting a link.

Work smarter not harder.

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 12:43 pm Nah, I'm mad at myself for typing a book instead of just posting a link.

Work smarter not harder.

you probably explained it better (and more condensed)

There is a lot of good basketball on today.

I have come to accept the fact that, like my wife, PHd knows what he is talking about.
So hilarious to me when a plumber tries to explain science to a scientist.