Kansas Crimson

have you ever been in a union?

MICHHAWK wrote: ↑Sat Sep 03, 2022 11:51 am now that every person is starting out at 18 bucks an hour, no American should be living in poverty. Unless of course they are spending their paycheck on the drugs.

Let's do some math.
$18 an hour. 40 hours a week. 52 weeks a year. Forgetting people may not get paid for vacation time.
$37,440. According to this https://us.thetaxcalculator.net/hourly- ... calculator you clear $33,252.42.

I'm going to ask you, how much do you think the average SINGLE person living alone and only having to take car of themself making $33,252 a year has to pay for NECESSITIES such as ....
Rent?
Food?
Personal care/hygiene products/toiletries?
Home cleaning/keeping supplies?
Medical expenses?
Furniture/bedding?
Appliances?
Utility payments - necessities such as electricity, gas, water?
Other "utilities" such as cable, wifi, phone/cell phone, etc.?
Clothing?
Transportation? I won't ask about the costs to own a car but I will ask about public transportation.
Insurance?
I promise you that leaves someone making $33,252.42 with very little left over.
I'm not even including things most people spend money on such as entertainment, travel, and gifts.

Ok, now what if that person has a child they are financially responsible for?

ousdahl wrote: ↑Sat Sep 03, 2022 10:23 am it sucks that the sentiment of "No American willing to work full time should still have to live in poverty" is dismissed as some unrealistic and unsustainable hot take.

and the common exception is some little mom and pop shop just barely scratching by, but bear in mind Taco Bell is a big multinational megacorporation that generates billions in revenue.

Entry level jobs earn entry level economic compensation. I am not sure why you feel that is unfair. If you pay everyone $50,000 a year to walk a burrito ten feet from a window to a counter on a tray then said burrito slinging company goes out of business and those employees are now unemployed.

TDub wrote: ↑Sun Sep 04, 2022 9:55 am have you ever been in a union?

Nope.

Some coworkers and I floated the idea of forming one tho

You can read all about it in the official ousdahl is funemployed thread.

But generally, the whole “unions is scary” thing seems like yet another capitalist gaslight.

I mean shit, one of Bezos’s big talking points against the formation of Amazon worker unions is that the unions are gonna keep all the workers’s money.

You think he came up with that one on his spaceship, or just his yacht?

ousdahl wrote: ↑Sun Sep 04, 2022 10:04 am

TDub wrote: ↑Sun Sep 04, 2022 9:55 am have you ever been in a union?

Nope.

Some coworkers and I floated the idea of forming one tho

You can read all about it in the official ousdahl is funemployed thread.

id rather not.

Perhaps if you had you'd have a more rounded view on it rather than a knee jerk "they fight for workers rights, they only do good,, fuck yea" view.

ousdahl wrote: ↑Sun Sep 04, 2022 10:04 am

TDub wrote: ↑Sun Sep 04, 2022 9:55 am have you ever been in a union?

Nope.

Some coworkers and I floated the idea of forming one tho

You can read all about it in the official ousdahl is funemployed thread.

But generally, the whole “unions is scary” thing seems like yet another capitalist gaslight.

I mean shit, one of Bezos’s big talking points against the formation of Amazon worker unions is that the unions are gonna keep all the workers’s money.

You think he came up with that one on his spaceship, or just his yacht?

I never said they were scary, i was involved with unions and part of a union for the better part of 15 years.

They aren't scary, but they have their own sets of limitations and issues. The certainly limit the freedom of their members in some capacity.

Dang you quoted me before I added to that post.

I never said “they only do good,” that’s just you trying to put words in my mouth, yet again. And to be fair, forgive me if the “scary” comment may come across as me putting words in your mouth.

Generally tho, which entity do you think cares about workers more:

The worker unions?

Or the capitalists?

Of course unions have their own sets of limitations and issues. But so does capitalism!

Do you think unions limit the “freedoms” of workers more so than the investor class trying to leverage the worker labor for their own gain?

And if we’re gonna marginalize fast food work, what next?

Happy Labor Day btw you guys.

If only more laborers actually got the day off.

Most (i won't say all because I'm not sure that's true)...but most unions require years of service to achieve the status to be entitled to a full wage share. Most unions require long term enrollment to become vested to earn the use of the benefits, to reap the rewards of the retirement structure etc .

How many fast food workers do you think are going to stay in the industry long enough to see any of benefits?

More than likely, unionizing will result in the same wage for the entry level workers, but a higher "package"...woth the reality being that the higher package will be paid to the union to support the structure required to assemble and maintain the union, with the higher prices required to support these packages being passed on to the consumer for the end product. All of this, and the worker will see little to no increase in their take home paycheck. Most fast food workers are going to move to different jobs, career paths before any of those benefits to them are realized.

ousdahl wrote: ↑Sun Sep 04, 2022 10:14 am Of course unions have their own sets of limitations and issues. But so does capitalism!

Do you think unions limit the “freedoms” of workers more so than the investor class trying to leverage the worker labor for their own gain?

And if we’re gonna marginalize fast food work, what next?

christ im done again, youre inability to see anything other than your stance makes it impossible to discuss anything with you.

Nobody is marginalizing fast food workers, thats your memes talking again. Not all jobs are equal, not all jobs and services provide equal benefit to society. Not all jobs require the same training, not all jobs are deserving of the same pay. Im not sure why that's so hard to grasp.

where did I say all jobs are equal?

you're the one calling fast food work low level, entry level, transitory, all these terms that sure do come across as marginalizing fast food work.

how would you feel if I started marginalizing construction work? Cuz let's face it bro, even a high school kid could do it.

wait a sec - aren't you the one who would rather do construction in Oregon cuz "right to work" Idaho pays significantly less?

only through the union

I can charge and get the same prices I charge now for my work without the union.


Im not anti union, I think they can do a lot of good. But I think it's the big hot push button right now and a lot of people are spouting off about it without any knowledge of how they work.

I dont care if you marginalize construction work...its been marginalized for decades.

A high school kid could do it.....hire one and see how you like the end result. Then, hire me to come fix what they fucked up and Ill.charge you double for having to take it all apart first.

oh, and calling fast food work entry level, low level and low value isn't marginilizing....its just reality.

ohhhhh...value! maybe we're getting somewhere!

let's focus on and dissect the "low value" element of your last comment.

how are you defining value?

just spitballing numbers - say a high school kid is paid even $18 bucks an hour, and is expected to, and does, make 100 burrito supremes an hour, at $3 bucks a pop. That's like $300 worth of burritos, gross (pun intended).

But all the high school kid gets from it is the $18 bucks (ok, plus prob a shift meal, and the corresponding diarrhea that comes with said meal)

So what becomes of that surplus $282 of value generated? Yea, inevitably to cover the shift meal, overhead and ingredients and rent and utilities and such, but then what?

value meaning....if that particular kid left....how hard or easily can he be replaced? Seeing as how no experience, no training, no licensing is required....they can be replaced nearly instantly.

value meaning...if you take that job away how does it impact society? Very minimally.


not everything is value as in breakdown of pennies

you get hung up on specific things and specific wordings that the internet tells you to and you miss the larger picture.

Anyway, have fun, I've got stuff I gotta get done today.

despite your best efforts, I still think we're getting somewhere!

If I view a kid's value in terms of how much his labor produces, and you view a kid's value in terms of the degree to which you perceive him as fungible, maybe we'll just have to agree to disagree there. I'd suggest discussing the observation that "they can be replaced nearly instantly" with all the stories about restaurants and other businesses cutting hours and shutting doors cuz they can't find anyone who wants to work, but I think we'd be better off moving right along.

let's go with your definition of value in terms of, if you take that job away how does impact society? Yeah, maybe one individual burrito slinger walking off the job doesn't change much, but what if all food service workers suddenly developed some class conscious and class solidarity and organized, and all walked off the job all at once? How would that impact society?

Let's also consider this "impact to society" metric not just for some of the lowest-earning positions, but some of the highest earning ones too. For instance, hedge fund managers!

Many of them make millions or even billions a year. Say there's suddenly that many fewer hedge fund bros trying to squeeze between every financial transaction to leech cash for themselves, or whatever the F it is hedge fund managers do.

(illy, before you lecture me about how I don't understand what they do, I admit, I don't! So if you can provide any good faith explanation, I'd take it, please and thanks)

But if a hedge fund manager, or even all the hedge fund managers, just walk off and go hide out on their private resort ranches with huge stocker trout in their river, how does that impact society?

And then realize, one hedge fund manager might make as much or more than 1000s of fast food workers. For...what kind of value do they generate, again? Heck, maybe that hedge fund bro made the money he did precisely by gaming all the surplus value from all those burrito supremes.