If we're at the point of nitpicking his tennis game, he's in good position. He's getting press, and it's for something nobody cares about
Re: Vivek ramaswamy
Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 11:39 pm
by mjl2
I'm randy'ing here with consecutive posts...
But Vivek has some Obama in him. I went to a shit-ton of political events in Iowa in '07. One was called the Heartland Conference or something like that. For context, Dennis Kucinich got the biggest cheers, and Hilary Clinton got boo'ed. So - fat left.
Obama was masterful in avoiding the actual questions, rather speaking to the ideals he shared with the far left (which frankly isn't much). Keep in mind Obama and Clinton on the political spectrum are really close. But he was able to be vague enough and pontificating enough to get all cheers from that crowd.
Vivek is also quite good at that.
Re: Vivek ramaswamy
Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2023 6:32 am
by RainbowsandUnicorns
mjl2 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 22, 2023 11:39 pm
I'm randy'ing here with consecutive posts...
But Vivek has some Obama in him. I went to a shit-ton of political events in Iowa in '07. One was called the Heartland Conference or something like that. For context, Dennis Kucinich got the biggest cheers, and Hilary Clinton got boo'ed. So - fat left.
Obama was masterful in avoiding the actual questions, rather speaking to the ideals he shared with the far left (which frankly isn't much). Keep in mind Obama and Clinton on the political spectrum are really close. But he was able to be vague enough and pontificating enough to get all cheers from that crowd.
Vivek is also quite good at that.
You are a smarter guy that I am. Help me out.
Kucinich was polling at what in Iowa at that time? About 1 or 2%? Hillary was polling at what? My guess is in the 30%s.
Isn't it NOT unusual for people at an "event" in which multiple Presidential Candidates are in attendance to try and boost the little "guy/s" and bash the big "guy/s"?
I agree Vivek has SOME Obama in him. I admit my ignorance in that I don't know who VGR! has advising him but I do know Obama made a point of having some experienced political people help guide him.
At the time (2007), I believed Obama was trying to appeal to everyone (which was impossible) and was catering to what he felt was the most popular opinions and what the majority of people wanted.
As the campaign went on, of course a large percentage of his supporters could tell you "hope and change" but many of them couldn't tell you a single "stance" he had on a specific topic.
I don't know what will come of VGR! but I think he will take a few pages out of the Obama playbook and run with them. After all, it was a winning strategy in 2008. The question is if it will be a winning strategy in 2024.
I wasn't at the event you were at so I don't know how Obama and Kucinich answered the questions they were asked but when I have some time I am going to watch this.... I know Kucinich is asked questions starting at about the 59 minute mark.
As someone who has been paying attention since ~ the age I made the grand leap from a tricycle to a bike, learning this morning that Vivek didn't even bother to vote until he was 30 does not incline me take him any more seriously than I previously did, which wasn't much.
Honest to god, this is not that far removed across the field of love from Marianne Williamson.
Really, now, if you were the former president*, no insult intended, why would you debate this passel of the lame, the halt, the blind, and Chris Christie? You have pressing legal concerns at all points of the compass. You're somewhere between 20 and 40 percent in the polls and, to be completely honest, none of these people have laid a glove on you yet. Tim Scott, Nikki Haley, Doug Burgum, and Mike Pence don't add up to Ron DeSantis, even in the latter's currently enervated state. And then there's this guy who, frankly, talks like a nut. From The Atlantic:
Ramaswamy doesn’t consider himself a culture warrior; he insists that he is merely speaking the truth. He presents his ideas as self-evident, eternal truths. I asked him if he believes that truths can change over time. For instance, what did he make of the fact that most white Americans used to view it as a “truth” that Black people were genetically inferior—that they weren’t fully human?“I don’t think that’s true,” he said.“It is true,” I said. “That’s partly what justified slavery.” “But it was a justification; it wasn’t a belief,” he said. “Look at emperors—Septimius Severus in Rome. He was Black. He had dark skin. They viewed dark skin as the way we view dark eyes.”
Interesting point, but what possible relevance does it have to the question posed? Is Ramaswamy arguing that the people of Rome were not prejudiced because they allowed Severus to be emperor, like they had a choice? (Severus became emperor in the tried and true method of raising an army and seizing the throne.) And he should take that whole justification-belief thing up with Martin Luther.
Here’s where else he’s gone in his quest for the truth. He has tantalized audiences with the idea that Americans don’t know “the truth about January 6” and has argued that those who stormed the Capitol have been lied to and “suppressed.” He argues that people who identify as transgender suffer from a mental-health disorder: “I think there is something else going wrong in that person’'s life, badly wrong,” he has said. He calls race-based affirmative action “a cancer” and vows to end it “in every sphere of American life.” He endorses using the military to secure America’s borders, brokering a deal that would cede a huge chunk of Ukraine to Russia, and defending Taiwan from Chinese aggression “only as far as 2028.” His grandest vision might best be described as the inverse of Franklin D. Roosevelt’s New Deal: a demolition of the federal government—FBI, CDC, DOE, ATF, IRS—gone.
There is not a single sentence in that paragraph that doesn't disqualify this guy from being president of the United States.
Then, suddenly, he was talking about 9/11. “I think it is legitimate to say how many police, how many federal agents, were on the planes that hit the Twin Towers. Maybe the answer is zero. It probably is zero for all I know, right? I have no reason to think it was anything other than zero. But if we’re doing a comprehensive assessment of what happened on 9/11, we have a 9/11 commission, absolutely that should be an answer the public knows the answer to. Well, if we’re doing a January 6 commission, absolutely, those should be questions that we should get to the bottom of,” he said. “‘Here are the people who were armed. Here are the people who are unarmed.’ What percentage of the people who were armed were federal law-enforcement officers? I think it was probably high, actually. Right?”
Get it? He's not saying there were federal agents on the planes. He's just asking questions. There is not a single sentence in that paragraph that doesn't disqualify this guy from being the guy on the next barstool.
mjl2 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 22, 2023 5:26 pm
I think people are underestimating this guy. He appeals to sane pubs (even DC likes him, for instance), but also has a pretty solid mastery of the ethos (there's a better word that's escaping me) of the crazy/moronic pubs.
I think he's going to have a significant rise in the polls after Wednesday.
And then his opponents are going to dig up "liberal" or "woke" stuff he has done/said in the past. Will be interesting to see if he can withstand that.
It won't matter. Unless and until Trump is off the board, the nomination is his if he wants it.
Even if enough influential conservatives (correctly) determine that Trump is entirely ineligible for the presidency under Section 3 of the 14th Amendment...then there's still no path in the general.
Trump is NOT dropping out; not only is winning reelection his only clear path to a federal pardon, but RUNNING for reelection is the grift that will keep (some of) his lawyers (partly) paid.
Trump is going to be hit very ineffectively by the likes of Christie and Pence.
However, he's going to get effectively hit exactly like this.
1) Nobody 80 or older should ever be president, period.
...
3) Trump was a very good president prior to Covid. However, he miserably failed the biggest leadership test of his presidency -- Covid -- and we are all still paying for that. Including effectively handing his presidency over to Fauci-Birx, who did generational damage to America.
...
5) Operation Warp Speed was a cosmic failure that injured/killed more people than it helped, for which Trump has not only shown zero remorse but remains proud of funding Big Pharma to poison us.
6) The only public health department on this continent to tell any truth about the poison poke whatsoever is Florida's under the direction of DeSantis. And he has even convened a grand jury to investigate the extent of the fraud/damage done. No other elected figure in America has told more truth about Trump's experimental genetic serum than DeSantis has.
Yeah, that's for Desantis... But I think pubs will go for Vivek over Ron when they start hearing them.
An aside, I was forced to listen to that guy (Deace) on the radio at my first job.
I’d love to be wrong, but I just don’t see an outcome where Trump is defeated in the R primary.
mjl2 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 22, 2023 11:39 pm
I'm randy'ing here with consecutive posts...
But Vivek has some Obama in him. I went to a shit-ton of political events in Iowa in '07. One was called the Heartland Conference or something like that. For context, Dennis Kucinich got the biggest cheers, and Hilary Clinton got boo'ed. So - fat left.
Obama was masterful in avoiding the actual questions, rather speaking to the ideals he shared with the far left (which frankly isn't much). Keep in mind Obama and Clinton on the political spectrum are really close. But he was able to be vague enough and pontificating enough to get all cheers from that crowd.
Vivek is also quite good at that.
You are a smarter guy that I am. Help me out.
Kucinich was polling at what in Iowa at that time? About 1 or 2%? Hillary was polling at what? My guess is in the 30%s.
Isn't it NOT unusual for people at an "event" in which multiple Presidential Candidates are in attendance to try and boost the little "guy/s" and bash the big "guy/s"?
I agree Vivek has SOME Obama in him. I admit my ignorance in that I don't know who VGR! has advising him but I do know Obama made a point of having some experienced political people help guide him.
At the time (2007), I believed Obama was trying to appeal to everyone (which was impossible) and was catering to what he felt was the most popular opinions and what the majority of people wanted.
As the campaign went on, of course a large percentage of his supporters could tell you "hope and change" but many of them couldn't tell you a single "stance" he had on a specific topic.
I don't know what will come of VGR! but I think he will take a few pages out of the Obama playbook and run with them. After all, it was a winning strategy in 2008. The question is if it will be a winning strategy in 2024.
I wasn't at the event you were at so I don't know how Obama and Kucinich answered the questions they were asked but when I have some time I am going to watch this.... I know Kucinich is asked questions starting at about the 59 minute mark.
Not sure about your question, I don't recall noticing that, but I don't recall any evidence against it.
Re: Vivek ramaswamy
Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2023 8:34 am
by DCHawk1
RainbowsandUnicorns wrote: ↑Wed Aug 23, 2023 6:32 am
I admit my ignorance in that I don't know who VGR! has advising him
Nobody.
And that's what is both fascinating and annoying.
Re: Vivek ramaswamy
Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2023 11:47 am
by mjl2
jfish26 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 23, 2023 7:29 am
I’d love to be wrong, but I just don’t see an outcome where Trump is defeated in the R primary.
See the Deep State thread. Randy is not an outlier (I don't think?) when it comes to primary voters.
I think there's an over 50% chance Trump will be the nominee... but I also think there's a >20% chance he won't be, with Operation Warp Speed being his undoing.
(and another 10% chance or so he'll be in jail)
jfish26 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 23, 2023 7:29 am
I’d love to be wrong, but I just don’t see an outcome where Trump is defeated in the R primary.
See the Deep State thread. Randy is not an outlier (I don't think?) when it comes to primary voters.
I think there's an over 50% chance Trump will be the nominee... but I also think there's a >20% chance he won't be, with Operation Warp Speed being his undoing.
(and another 10% chance or so he'll be in jail)
I hope you’re right. I just don’t think the incentives can line up for him to drop out voluntarily, and I don’t see a plausible scenario where he just sort of loses.
Sparko wrote: ↑Tue Aug 22, 2023 6:40 pm
VGR's appeal is the old one: look, an ethnic minority running as a republican. They have friends who are fill in the blank. Won't vote for them though. VGR has mastered the grift grievance circuit like Herman Cain who is still dead despite not receiving an immunization for COVID.
This is, typically, condescending and offensive.
Gross -- and, frankly, ignorant.
I guess President Obama unleashed a mystery wave of white supremacy in the GOP. Condescend to the willfully ignorant? Hard to do.
jfish26 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 23, 2023 7:29 am
I’d love to be wrong, but I just don’t see an outcome where Trump is defeated in the R primary.
See the Deep State thread. Randy is not an outlier (I don't think?) when it comes to primary voters.
I think there's an over 50% chance Trump will be the nominee... but I also think there's a >20% chance he won't be, with Operation Warp Speed being his undoing.
(and another 10% chance or so he'll be in jail)
I see no realistic path to Trump being beat in the primaries and not winning the nomination. His base is simply too committed to this absurdity. It's Ride Or Die at this point.
Thomas Zurbuchen, NASA’s former head of science, said in a social media post that no one in the industry “wishes bad onto other explorers.”
“We are reminded that landing on any celestial object is anything but easy & straightforward,” he said in a post on X, the social media platform formerly known as Twitter. “Just because others managed to do it decades ago, does not guarantee success today.”
Just because others managed to do it decades ago with technology surpassed by what was in the graphing calculator I used in high school, does not guarantee success today!
bump to further lol at russia (congrats, India)
Re: Vivek ramaswamy
Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2023 1:46 pm
by jfish26
It is apparent that Vivek’s faux-intellectual buzzwording has landed with at least a portion of the rubes.
jfish26 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 23, 2023 7:29 am
I’d love to be wrong, but I just don’t see an outcome where Trump is defeated in the R primary.
See the Deep State thread. Randy is not an outlier (I don't think?) when it comes to primary voters.
I think there's an over 50% chance Trump will be the nominee... but I also think there's a >20% chance he won't be, with Operation Warp Speed being his undoing.
(and another 10% chance or so he'll be in jail)
I see no realistic path to Trump being beat in the primaries and not winning the nomination. His base is simply too committed to this absurdity. It's Ride Or Die at this point.
Do you see what I am saying though? His base also hates the vaccine, which he helped deliver. They also loathe Fauci, who Trump put in front of the country
See the Deep State thread. Randy is not an outlier (I don't think?) when it comes to primary voters.
I think there's an over 50% chance Trump will be the nominee... but I also think there's a >20% chance he won't be, with Operation Warp Speed being his undoing.
(and another 10% chance or so he'll be in jail)
I see no realistic path to Trump being beat in the primaries and not winning the nomination. His base is simply too committed to this absurdity. It's Ride Or Die at this point.
Do you see what I am saying though? His base also hates the vaccine, which he helped deliver. They also loathe Fauci, who Trump put in front of the country
I hear you. I just don’t think this can peel off anything remotely approaching a material amount of support for Trump.
See the Deep State thread. Randy is not an outlier (I don't think?) when it comes to primary voters.
I think there's an over 50% chance Trump will be the nominee... but I also think there's a >20% chance he won't be, with Operation Warp Speed being his undoing.
(and another 10% chance or so he'll be in jail)
I see no realistic path to Trump being beat in the primaries and not winning the nomination. His base is simply too committed to this absurdity. It's Ride Or Die at this point.
Do you see what I am saying though? His base also hates the vaccine, which he helped deliver. They also loathe Fauci, who Trump put in front of the country
That would require the application of common sense and internal review, which I honestly haven't seen from many Trump base voters. The people who do that sort of honest assessment have already bailed on Trump and either left the GOP Party entirely or have moved on to some other GOP nominee. His base is pretty baked in at this point absent a thorough and convincing conviction.
twocoach wrote: ↑Wed Aug 23, 2023 1:29 pm
I see no realistic path to Trump being beat in the primaries and not winning the nomination. His base is simply too committed to this absurdity. It's Ride Or Die at this point.
Do you see what I am saying though? His base also hates the vaccine, which he helped deliver. They also loathe Fauci, who Trump put in front of the country
That would require the application of common sense and internal review, which I honestly haven't seen from many Trump base voters. The people who do that sort of honest assessment have already bailed on Trump and either left the GOP Party entirely or have moved on to some other GOP nominee. His base is pretty baked in at this point absent a thorough and convincing conviction.
Especially because Trump’s base will do as it’s told. If Trump comes out and says everything Covid related was Soros/deep state…his base will simply go along with it.