Kansas Crimson

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:22 am I think it's more about playing 4 out 1 in instead of 3 out and 2 in. In terms of depth, I'd also assume foul trouble or injury are higher priorities for Self than having the ability to bench a guy as punishment.

Obviously an advantage of depth is that if a guy is performing poorly you can put in the backup, but that's certainly not limited to Vick.

I don't think you burn a redshirt because there's a senior player you want to "punish".

It's certainly not the only reason but I think it is on the list of reasons. And it's not just "a senior player". It's disingenuous to categorize the move as that. Vick is in a very unique position with Self and at KU.

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:40 am Dotson
Grimes
Agbaji
???
DMac

Next year?

Grimes ain't coming back.

Next year is lean. Which is just more reason to pull Agbaji's shirt.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:49 am

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:40 am Dotson
Grimes
Agbaji
???
DMac

Next year?

Grimes ain't coming back.

Next year is lean. Which is just more reason to pull Agbaji's shirt.

You're probably right about Grimes, but at least he doesn't come from a family situation where it's almost a necessity that he leaves to support his family. So I think he can make a decision in a different manner than many kids in his spot.

I guess I should have included Dok, but I think he's ready to be gone onto a professional career 1 way or another.

Udoka is not applying for a medical redshirt, for which he is eligible.

That's the cherry on top for me in thinking that he won't be back.

I thought this was his last year.

I still think he wants to go pro after this year.

The timing of this injury, and the fact that he can't start playing again until the summer, might push him to come back, especially if his recovery is at all slower than projected. He'll still be hurt during all the pre-draft workouts and stuff. Of course, he might just want to get paid and going overseas is his best option...especially if the NBA isn't that interested anyway.

I'm hoping he comes back. Like Self said, he's only 19, so it's not like his age is a big issue in leaving school...and although he's now in his 3rd year, he's played in only a little more than one season's worth of games.

Would he receive a medical redshirt? It’s like a certain number of games and he apparently stayed under?

And what’s his next move? Find one place or another to get paid while he can?

ousdahl wrote: ↑Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:01 am Would he receive a medical redshirt? It’s like a certain number of games and he apparently stayed under?

And what’s his next move? Find one place or another to get paid while he can?

It's 9 or less, and he's right at 9.

Honestly, if he has no intentions of coming back, he should not enroll in Spring classes so long as it doesn't affect our APR. Needs top dollar rehab and training.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:37 am Yes, to me it says a lot about Charlie and KJ, particularly KJ.

Yes. Ochai will be playing more minutes than KJ by the end of the month.

NewtonHawk11 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:05 am

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:37 am Yes, to me it says a lot about Charlie and KJ, particularly KJ.

Yes. Ochai will be playing more minutes than KJ by the end of the month.

He better be doing it by the end of tonight based on what I've seen (of KJ).

Maybe (part of) this is the beginning of preparing for next year...puts some guys on notice. Maybe sets the stage for one or 2 "force outs". Mutually agreed upon of course.

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:11 am

NewtonHawk11 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:05 am

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:37 am Yes, to me it says a lot about Charlie and KJ, particularly KJ.

Yes. Ochai will be playing more minutes than KJ by the end of the month.

He better be doing it by the end of tonight based on what I've seen (of KJ).

Agreed. But just think it will take time for him to get into game shape. Will be a few games at minimum.

We're not forcing KJ out.

Keelon Sr has made it clear what he'll do with his sons if a head coach pisses him off.

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:11 am

NewtonHawk11 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:05 am

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:37 am Yes, to me it says a lot about Charlie and KJ, particularly KJ.

Yes. Ochai will be playing more minutes than KJ by the end of the month.

He better be doing it by the end of tonight based on what I've seen (of KJ).

Maybe (part of) this is the beginning of preparing for next year...puts some guys on notice. Maybe sets the stage for one or 2 "force outs". Mutually agreed upon of course.

Not sure we are in on enough quality recruits for next season to be forcing anyone out.

NewtonHawk11 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:12 am

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:11 am

NewtonHawk11 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:05 am

Yes. Ochai will be playing more minutes than KJ by the end of the month.

He better be doing it by the end of tonight based on what I've seen (of KJ).

Agreed. But just think it will take time for him to get into game shape. Will be a few games at minimum.

Wouldnt be surprised to see Agbaji get 15+ minutes tonight just because.

NewtonHawk11 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:05 am

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:37 am Yes, to me it says a lot about Charlie and KJ, particularly KJ.

Yes. Ochai will be playing more minutes than KJ by the end of the month.

I actually hope it's Moore who sees the bigger reduction in minutes.

He's been less productive than KJ on a per minute basis.

Obviously, that he can be a primary ballhandler means he'll still get minutes to spell Dotson, but KJ shoots a higher percentage on both 2s and 3s, scores more, rebounds more and gets more assists per 40 than Moore.

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:41 am

NewtonHawk11 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:05 am

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:37 am Yes, to me it says a lot about Charlie and KJ, particularly KJ.

Yes. Ochai will be playing more minutes than KJ by the end of the month.

I actually hope it's Moore who sees the bigger reduction in minutes.

He's been less productive than KJ on a per minute basis.

Obviously, that he can be a primary ballhandler means he'll still get minutes to spell Dotson, but KJ shoots a higher percentage on both 2s and 3s, scores more, rebounds more and gets more assists per 40 than Moore.

You're probably right about the production (although Moore's numbers are boosted by an aberration game), but with Udoka out, you would expect KJ's minutes to go way up.

I don't think Self wants that to happen and Agbaji's pulled shirt is a reflection of that. Moore's minutes will stagnate and KJ's will go up just a little, but not as much as he would like.

That Moore's numbers include the SD game further highlight how woefully unproductive he's been.

Yes, I read your post wrong.

And let's not leave out Garrett. Between those 3, you'd think they'd pick up the minutes slack in a 4-out rotation. Garrett's game is such a huge liability in today's style of basketball.

We're going to need a good recruiting class for next year. Especially if Dedric leaves.

If we've got Garrett Moore and KJ all playing major roles next year (with no Dedric, Dok, Vick, and Grimes) then we could have the 1st truly down season of the Self era....but plenty of time to get some guys. Just always somewhat nervous/anxious to see how this Adidas stuff impacts our ability to recruit.

It's not like we've got "the brotherhood" to help us land big timers like Duke does. LOL

ousdahl wrote: ↑Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:37 am Or! It’s just as much a testament to maybe Ochai is further along than anyone expected!

Yes.

Bill Self in KC Star: “If we’d known he’d be where he is right now before we’d have never considered it (redshirt) because he’s done so well.”
https://www.kansascity.com/sports/colle ... 06520.html

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:06 am We're going to need a good recruiting class for next year. Especially if Dedric leaves.

If we've got Garrett Moore and KJ all playing major roles next year (with no Dedric, Dok, Vick, and Grimes) then we could have the 1st truly down season of the Self era....but plenty of time to get some guys. Just always somewhat nervous/anxious to see how this Adidas stuff impacts our ability to recruit.

It's not like we've got "the brotherhood" to help us land big timers like Duke does. LOL

Dotson would have to go Sr. Mason or Sr. Graham