Kansas Crimson

Pistons come off exactly as they were.

Yep.

A lot to take in last night but some things I hope others came away with is.......

Jerry Krause was a GM genius, and has some sweet dance moves.
Tex Winter was a Coaching genius.
Phil Jackson was a Coaching genius. If not Xs and Os (which he was very good at), dealing with the psyche of players.
Doug Collins was originally a great coach for the Bulls (when he wasn't cheating on his wife, staying out all night getting fucked up, which surprisingly wasn't mentioned in the show/s) but when he alienated the guys (Winter and Jackson) who helped make him a great coach - the two Jerrys (Krause and Reinsdorf) absolutely did the right thing.
Dennis Rodman was a lunatic who was stud basketball player and one of the best "role" players of all time.
Carmen Elektra was/is fucking hot.
Scottie Pippen was MJ's Robin and MJ truly appreciated him.
Horace Grant is a funny man.
How amazing it was that the Pistons owned the Bulls for multiple seasons and what the dedication and determination over just one season did to turn the tides - and because of it, the Pistons were then the Bulls' bitches.

Again, not saying LeBron is better....but it's closer than the LeBron haters will ever admit.

when they say, "without an all-star," do they mean without an all-star even on the roster, or just without an all-star available to play cuz GM Lebron hand-picked them without regard for their injury histories?

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Mon Apr 27, 2020 8:12 am

Again, not saying LeBron is better....but it's closer than the LeBron haters will ever admit.

Obviously meant to spark debate, but what about MJ's playoff performance while eating steak before games? MJ is way higher. MJ haters won't admit how much better he was in the playoffs after eating steak.

On a side note, I don't recall the years Jordan played where the East was weak. All time great Celtics, back-to-back champ Pistons, etc... LeBron got tired of losing in Cleveland and went and joined a super team

3 great meme's last night. Harper and Grant made me laugh.

The last episode brings an interesting aspect of the debate when it comes to "GM LeBron". How would it be received if LeBron is out here publicly saying he won't play for that team anymore if a specific coach isn't coaching?

Nevermind Krause being an idiot and letting his ego get the best of him, that's not the point of discussion here. The point is, how would it be interpreted by MJ fans/LeBron haters if LeBron states he's not playing anymore unless Frank Vogel is the coach, then taking his ball and going home as soon as someone else is hired.

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Mon Apr 27, 2020 8:12 am

Again, not saying LeBron is better....but it's closer than the LeBron haters will ever admit.

I'm not a LeBron "hater" and I don't see how anyone can't think it's "close".
That being said, I'm curious as to what their playoff records are in terms of MJ playing with Scottie and LeBron playing with an All-Star. It's very possible Lebron has a better playoff win percentage but if he does, it's a lot closer than the 48% difference your "meme" states.

I am a big MJ fan, I watched him do incredible things. Regular season and the playoffs.
I can and do give LeBron James the praise he deserves. The 2015 NBA Finals is all anyone needs to look at to conclude LeBron James is one of the best if not the best player to ever play the game. He was the only better than average player the Cavs had playing in that series (after Kyrie went down) and HE gave the Warriors all they could handle. Incredible performance.

Lebron belongs on the other thread.


Good article on Kukoc. Always thought people forgot how good he was. Krause with another feather in the cap.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/2907 ... cago-bulls

NDballer13 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 27, 2020 8:56 am The last episode brings an interesting aspect of the debate when it comes to "GM LeBron". How would it be received if LeBron is out here publicly saying he won't play for that team anymore if a specific coach isn't coaching?

Nevermind Krause being an idiot and letting his ego get the best of him, that's not the point of discussion here. The point is, how would it be interpreted by MJ fans/LeBron haters if LeBron states he's not playing anymore unless Frank Vogel is the coach, then taking his ball and going home as soon as someone else is hired.

This was at the very end of Jordan's career. I think if Lebron retired at any point now, people would understand. If he retired in 2010 because he didn't like his coach, then sure it would be very odd. Jordan on his 3rd coach, and the Bulls were hanging around and staying together as long as they could, and were running out of steam. I think they would have won in 99 since the season was so short, but they wanted Phil to stay around and not to have to rebuild. They also publicly didn't like Krause for his organizations win championship comments, so they were either coming back all together or not at all. They barely got them all back together for the 98 team.

I don’t think Jordan had any intention of playing in ‘99. Lockout, team break-up, etc. The Phil thing made it even easier and was a nice concise way of getting the media off of him.

NDballer13 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 27, 2020 8:56 am The last episode brings an interesting aspect of the debate when it comes to "GM LeBron". How would it be received if LeBron is out here publicly saying he won't play for that team anymore if a specific coach isn't coaching?

Nevermind Krause being an idiot and letting his ego get the best of him, that's not the point of discussion here. The point is, how would it be interpreted by MJ fans/LeBron haters if LeBron states he's not playing anymore unless Frank Vogel is the coach, then taking his ball and going home as soon as someone else is hired.

Good question! There indeed is a difference between saying you won't play for a team if a specific coach is NOT coaching and you won't play for a team if a specific coach IS coaching.
The thing people will rightfully bring up is Paul Silas, Brendan Malone, Mike Brown, Dave Blatt, and Luke Walton were Lebron "casualties".

Was MJ's contract up when Phil left? I believe it was. So he really didn't actually do specifically the exact scenario you are asking about.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Mon Apr 27, 2020 9:10 am I don’t think Jordan had any intention of playing in ‘99. Lockout, team break-up, etc. The Phil thing made it even easier and was a nice concise way of getting the media off of him.

This very well could be true, but we both know, along with everyone else, that LeBron would be railroaded for eternity if he said the same things MJ said about that situation and conveniently hung it up when those things did happen.

Grandma wrote: ↑Mon Apr 27, 2020 9:19 am

NDballer13 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 27, 2020 8:56 am The last episode brings an interesting aspect of the debate when it comes to "GM LeBron". How would it be received if LeBron is out here publicly saying he won't play for that team anymore if a specific coach isn't coaching?

Nevermind Krause being an idiot and letting his ego get the best of him, that's not the point of discussion here. The point is, how would it be interpreted by MJ fans/LeBron haters if LeBron states he's not playing anymore unless Frank Vogel is the coach, then taking his ball and going home as soon as someone else is hired.

Good question! There indeed is a difference between saying you won't play for a team if a specific coach is NOT coaching and you won't play for a team if a specific coach IS coaching.
The thing people will rightfully bring up is Paul Silas, Brendan Malone, Mike Brown, Dave Blatt, and Luke Walton were Lebron "casualties".

Was MJ's contract up when Phil left? I believe it was. So he really didn't actually do specifically the exact scenario you are asking about.

MJ was on a one year deal. I may be misremembering, but I thought each of his last 2 contracts were one year deals.

Grandma wrote: ↑Mon Apr 27, 2020 9:19 am

NDballer13 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 27, 2020 8:56 am The last episode brings an interesting aspect of the debate when it comes to "GM LeBron". How would it be received if LeBron is out here publicly saying he won't play for that team anymore if a specific coach isn't coaching?

Nevermind Krause being an idiot and letting his ego get the best of him, that's not the point of discussion here. The point is, how would it be interpreted by MJ fans/LeBron haters if LeBron states he's not playing anymore unless Frank Vogel is the coach, then taking his ball and going home as soon as someone else is hired.

Good question! There indeed is a difference between saying you won't play for a team if a specific coach is NOT coaching and you won't play for a team if a specific coach IS coaching.
The thing people will rightfully bring up is Paul Silas, Brendan Malone, Mike Brown, Dave Blatt, and Luke Walton were Lebron "casualties".

Was MJ's contract up when Phil left? I believe it was. So he really didn't actually do specifically the exact scenario you are asking about.

I think his contract was up too. If it wasn't I doubt the media would always be asking about his plans for next year. It didn't play out EXACTLY like I mentioned, but it wasn't far off. He was heavily implying he would be back if Phil was. When they moved on from Phil, he walked away. He never really talked about the idea of retirement again, just that he wouldn't be back if Phil wasn't. That's as close to "quitting when you don't get your way" as it gets.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Mon Apr 27, 2020 9:26 am

Grandma wrote: ↑Mon Apr 27, 2020 9:19 am

NDballer13 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 27, 2020 8:56 am The last episode brings an interesting aspect of the debate when it comes to "GM LeBron". How would it be received if LeBron is out here publicly saying he won't play for that team anymore if a specific coach isn't coaching?

Nevermind Krause being an idiot and letting his ego get the best of him, that's not the point of discussion here. The point is, how would it be interpreted by MJ fans/LeBron haters if LeBron states he's not playing anymore unless Frank Vogel is the coach, then taking his ball and going home as soon as someone else is hired.

Good question! There indeed is a difference between saying you won't play for a team if a specific coach is NOT coaching and you won't play for a team if a specific coach IS coaching.
The thing people will rightfully bring up is Paul Silas, Brendan Malone, Mike Brown, Dave Blatt, and Luke Walton were Lebron "casualties".

Was MJ's contract up when Phil left? I believe it was. So he really didn't actually do specifically the exact scenario you are asking about.

MJ was on a one year deal. I may be misremembering, but I thought each of his last 2 contracts were one year deals.

You are right. He got paid those last 2 years. It wasn't a forgone conclusion he was playing in 97-98 although it seemed likely they'd try to 3-Peat again.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Mon Apr 27, 2020 9:06 am Lebron belongs on the other thread.


Good article on Kukoc. Always thought people forgot how good he was. Krause with another feather in the cap.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/2907 ... cago-bulls

It's a great article.
Toni was fantastic.

Best Toni moment I experienced was on 12/07/93. Last Bulls season in the Chicago Stadium.
Danny Manning and the Clippers were in town. Pippen was guarding Danny. All of a sudden Toni comes in the game and he is guarding Danny. I laugh. I yell at Danny to take Toni to school. I'm telling the people I am with and who are around me that there is no way Toni can guard Danny.
Final horn sounds. Danny finishes with an NBA career high 43 points.

I have found Toni to be a great guy. Incredibly modest, genuine, soft spoken, personable, will give you the time of day if you show him respect. I was a big fan of him on the court, I'm a bigger fan of his off the court.

LVCHawk wrote: ↑Mon Apr 27, 2020 9:31 am

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Mon Apr 27, 2020 9:26 am

Grandma wrote: ↑Mon Apr 27, 2020 9:19 am

Good question! There indeed is a difference between saying you won't play for a team if a specific coach is NOT coaching and you won't play for a team if a specific coach IS coaching.
The thing people will rightfully bring up is Paul Silas, Brendan Malone, Mike Brown, Dave Blatt, and Luke Walton were Lebron "casualties".

Was MJ's contract up when Phil left? I believe it was. So he really didn't actually do specifically the exact scenario you are asking about.

MJ was on a one year deal. I may be misremembering, but I thought each of his last 2 contracts were one year deals.

You are right. He got paid those last 2 years. It wasn't a forgone conclusion he was playing in 97-98 although it seemed likely they'd try to 3-Peat again.

A big takeaway I've had from the doc thus far is that I'm shocked he even came back for 97-98 given all of the stuff that was going on. It's no surprise he commanded an astronomical salary for the time.

NDballer13 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 27, 2020 9:19 am

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Mon Apr 27, 2020 9:10 am I don’t think Jordan had any intention of playing in ‘99. Lockout, team break-up, etc. The Phil thing made it even easier and was a nice concise way of getting the media off of him.

This very well could be true, but we both know, along with everyone else, that LeBron would be railroaded for eternity if he said the same things MJ said about that situation and conveniently hung it up when those things did happen.

but haven't those things all happened?

not complete apples to apples, but you speak as if Lebron hasn't had any silly GM and coach drama of his own.

What would MJ's legacy be if he unilaterally bounced from team to team, every few years looking for some new all star rival-turned-teammate to be pals?

LeBron has only played for 3 teams...and honestly, I wonder how much MJs issues with GMs (hell and Pippens) was sort of what turned the tide into players taking command of their own destiny....maybe I'm giving too much credit there, but watching how Krause ruined those Bulls teams (even though they won, it was disfunction) it's easy to see why players nowadays look out for themselves and want to play with their friends.