Kansas Crimson

Not saying I don't agree that Frank is the best guard Self has had at KU. I just disagree with the reasoning that he's the best is because he won the Naismith and no one else did. Is T-Rob the best big in the Self era because one great year during his 3 year career?

If the measure is peak...yes, there's a good argument for him. And Cole. And Doke.

I'd agree TRob has good argument.
When making a team of 5 Kansas guys, he usually doesn't fit, but he definitely belongs in the discussion of best big if we're talking peak season.

pdub wrote: ↑Mon Apr 13, 2020 5:11 pm I'd agree TRob has good argument.
When making a team of 5 Kansas guys, he usually doesn't fit, but he definitely belongs in the discussion of best big if we're talking peak season.

I'd give the nod to Doke. It's going to take some time to fully absorb what exactly he did this year, particularly during league play.

Oh, Dok is my vote too.

NDballer13 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 13, 2020 4:55 pm Not saying I don't agree that Frank is the best guard Self has had at KU. I just disagree with the reasoning that he's the best is because he won the Naismith and no one else did. Is T-Rob the best big in the Self era because one great year during his 3 year career?

Yes, Robinson's season isn't less special b/c AD made a late surge and took home the trophies.

Sherron was a consensus First Team AA. In 2010, not 2009.

Awards can be, and often are, interesting results.

jfish26 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 12, 2020 4:04 pm

ousdahl wrote: ↑Fri Apr 10, 2020 9:42 am for real.

I've been throwing around my all-Self 8 man rotation and right now I'm going with this:

Dok
McMorris
Rush
Chalmers
Mason

Embiid
Wiggins
Dotson

The hardest to leave off is prob Graham, but the lineup already has 2.75 point guards. Besides, I wanted to build a rotation with a bench that comes in and speeds the game up. That bench absolutely torches any other team's 2nd unit. Lots of 15-2 type runs mid-1st half, then the starters come back in fresh.

Big man durability might be an issue, but for hypos like these let's assume everyone is healthy and eligible. And it's a little small ball-y, but I'm embracing it. Heck, I almost started Rush or Wiggins at the 4.

Not sure I see a good argument for Chalmers over Graham. I'd have Graham over Dotson, also.

I'd argue it if you look beyond statistics. did mario even have a statistical season comparable to graham's senior year? no. but mario played an entirely different role. he played with the most loaded roster self has had there's a reason they won the title. I'd argue mario was the most dominant 2 guard (combo guard playing off the ball) that self has coached so far. mario was super efficient offensively. hit shots. lots of big shots. created for others. was great in pick and roll and throwing the lob. and was the most disruptive perimeter self had (before marcus garrett).

But on my team I chose devonte and mario. and brought frank off the bench. which people questioned too. But I chose chalmers/graham because they are both bigger guards better defenders and still very elite offensively.

I think we have all agreed on a rotation of mario, frank, and devonte and your 3 combo guards tho

pdub wrote: ↑Mon Apr 13, 2020 2:44 pm No, Frank Mason isn't the best college basketball player in 18 years.
But he's the best guard that Bill Self has had at Kansas.
And awards and stats are a factor when trying to decide why.

I'd argue Frank had the best season of any guard bill self had a kansas. not sure if that means he is the best guard bill self has had but I'm splitting hairs here. Chalmers or graham could be argued. If Frank Mason had played on a team as deep and talented as 08... he would not have played 35+ minutes a game, would not have averaged 20/5 and would not have won a player of the year award. There's a lot of factors going on there in getting that award

regarding "the most loaded roster Self has had," I wish I could find that pic of the 2010 team all wearing shutter shades...

randylahey wrote: ↑Mon Apr 13, 2020 6:48 pm

I think we have all agreed on a rotation of mario, frank, and devonte and your 3 combo guards tho

I do not. Any “best of” compilation that does not include SC is hogwash.

jfish26 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 13, 2020 5:01 pm If the measure is peak...yes, there's a good argument for him. And Cole. And Doke.

That's what I like and enjoy about these debates, there's so many variables.

When you're doing an all-time team, are you doing it at the peak? Are you doing it as a college career? Does pro career matter? Are you trying to find the 5 best players who can compliment each other and be the best "team"? Maybe even use their floor as your reasoning. Are you getting EJ at ISU, or EJ during the first 2 rounds of that year's tourney?

There's never a consensus 5 guys, even rarely a single consensus player.

I generally either consider it at their peak season and I'm imagining putting a team together for a fresh new season - if I could capture them at the beginning of their peak season, then this is my team.

If you aren't putting together a team ( of 5 or 8 or 10 ) and are just listing all time greats, then I immediately think career and total impact at Kansas and what they do after they leave Kansas has no relevance.

Not saying that any other debate about those things isn't valid -- just that they normally have to be called out/defined for me beyond 'greatest Jayhawks of all time' or 'choose your Bill Self KU players starting lineup'.

What about projections? Because Sr. Dotson would blow them all away.

Would Senior Dotson have a jumper yet?

The Staff's Greatest Hit Team: Appleton, Frankamp, Moore, McBride, Jossell

ousdahl wrote: ↑Tue Apr 14, 2020 11:29 am Would Senior Dotson have a jumper yet?

yup.

And for that matter, if he was averaging 22 and 11 in the league by then, what would (medical redshirt) senior Embiid project in college?

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Tue Apr 14, 2020 11:29 am The Staff's Greatest Hit Team: Appleton, Frankamp, Moore, McBride, Jossell

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ousdahl wrote: ↑Tue Apr 14, 2020 11:32 am

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Tue Apr 14, 2020 11:29 am The Staff's Greatest Hit Team: Appleton, Frankamp, Moore, McBride, Jossell

soup.gif

Oh man. If you suck, there's no reason to also be a pain in the ass. Rio lasting as long as he did is crazy.

ousdahl wrote: ↑Tue Apr 14, 2020 11:31 am And for that matter, if he was averaging 22 and 11 in the league by then, what would (medical redshirt) senior Embiid project in college?

Remember how big and physically dominating Dok was...