Kansas Crimson

I can't put Mahomes in that group yet.
I don't doubt in the slightest that he will be there eventually.

NewtonHawk11 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 7:36 am

holidaysmore wrote: ↑Fri Jan 22, 2021 1:50 pm If the Chiefs beat the Bills 31-17 I'll drive down to Newton and personally give you a hug in a full HazMat suit.

Close enough? Lol I just had a feeling KC was so much better and they showed it yesterday.

First round is on me at Applebees. You get the Super Bowl right and we will meet up at Pumphouse.

In all realities it is Brady, Montana and then everyone else. Because all of those QBs are so similar in numbers or one has more passing while the other has more TDs once you can win two that is when you start to separate yourself.

holidaysmore wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 9:26 am

NewtonHawk11 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 7:36 am

holidaysmore wrote: ↑Fri Jan 22, 2021 1:50 pm If the Chiefs beat the Bills 31-17 I'll drive down to Newton and personally give you a hug in a full HazMat suit.

Close enough? Lol I just had a feeling KC was so much better and they showed it yesterday.

First round is on me at Applebees. You get the Super Bowl right and we will meet up at Pumphouse.

In all realities it is Brady, Montana and then everyone else. Because all of those QBs are so similar in numbers or one has more passing while the other has more TDs once you can win two that is when you start to separate yourself.

Bro, we're big timers now. We got a Freddy's coming.

Here's my biggest thing with the QB groups. Mahomes has already accomplished what many have not, at age 25, on his rookie deal, before he's even come close to his peak. It's absurd.

Newton on the come up I see. Major metropolitan moves. Greasy Freddy's for the after SB hangover. Done.

If Mahomes can get two and not only two but two back to back...in my eyes he may catapult right past the Brees, Mannings, and Marinos of the world. It is absurd that we are even having a discussion about a CHIEFS QB being even mentioned in the same breaths as those all time greats. The Alex Smith, Matt Cassel years weren't that long ago.

Tampa fans have now seen all of their professional teams play in the championship game/series in the past year.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 9:48 am Tampa fans have now seen all of their professional teams play in the championship game/series in the past year.

In a manner of speaking.

pdub wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 8:40 am "Who may have been better than Brady?
I don't have a definitive answer."

"I don't think Brady is the GOAT."

1st all time in passing TDs.
2nd all time in passing yards.
2nd all time in completions.
4 Super Bowl MVPs - most ever.

All strong valid facts but........
I could take the other side and say......
1st all time in passing TDs but how many more passes has he thrown than let's say Manning? 1000?
2nd all time in passing yards but how many more passes has he thrown than let's say Manning? 1000?
2nd all time in completions but how many more passes has he thrown than let's say Manning? 1000? AND I am confident he isn't even close to being 2nd all time in completion percentage.
4 Super Bowl MVPs but he's only won the Super Bowl MVP 66.6666% of the time he's won the Super Bowl and less than 50% of the time he's played in the Super Bowl. Surely there are guys with better percentages.

You could but you'd be digging pretty deep.

Longevity and health helps make you great.

Next argument.

NewtonHawk11 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 8:50 am Ok then gutter. Using this logic, who is the GOAT LBJ or MJ? According to your logic, LBJ is the GOAT even though MJ is better in finals and that’s what seems to be the tipping point for many. I get that’s it’s been on a different bored and all that, but you better not contradict yourself.

You can’t look at things in a broad spectrum and NOT think that Brady is the best there’s ever been. From passing years, to TDs, to record setting seasons, to playing in conference championship game after conference championship. This will be Brady’s 10th SB appearance. In 21 seasons. That’s absurd on this sport where longevity is notoriously short.

I often contradict myself. It's a blessing and a curse for me.
Couple of thoughts.

Of course Brady has achieved MANY great things but as I pointed out to pdub, there are a lot of inflated numbers based on his longevity and the fact that he's thrown a shit ton of passes compared to other great QBs.
Stats, wins, etc., are great, important, and what we gage players on, but I see other things when watching games besides stats and wins and loses.

Would I say Brady is the best Playoff QB of all time? Probably. No doubt he played a major role in his playing in so many playoff games but it's a team game and there are plenty of times his teammates played major roles too.

I just threw out my opinion this morning. I wouldn't even pretend that I feel I am 100% right (or 100% wrong). Again, as I said, it's just my opinion.
I respect those who disagree and I don't feel you're necessarily wrong.

If you're going to knock Brady's all-time stats because of inflation, then Manning is not the guy you want to argue. How good Manning was is actually an argument for Brady. Manning's just a year older and they largely played at the same time. Both had rock solid organizational structure and, at different times, HOF caliber weapons.

There is a difference between being the most successful and being the best.

Cascadia wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 10:19 am There is a difference between being the most successful and being the best.

Sure. Brady, though, just checks more boxes than any other in history. Montana only guy with an argument.

If there was one guy I thought could check more boxes, it would have been Aaron Rodgers. That obviously has been derailed. But then, we get the new and improved Rodgers in Pat Mahomes and GOAT is suddenly on the table again.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 10:24 am

Cascadia wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 10:19 am There is a difference between being the most successful and being the best.

Sure. Brady, though, just checks more boxes than any other in history. Montana only guy with an argument.

If there was one guy I thought could check more boxes, it would have been Aaron Rodgers. That obviously has been derailed. But then, we get the new and improved Rodgers in Pat Mahomes and GOAT is suddenly on the table again.

There's potentially an awful lot of MJ/Bron in Brady/Mahomes.

jfish26 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 10:28 am

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 10:24 am

Cascadia wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 10:19 am There is a difference between being the most successful and being the best.

Sure. Brady, though, just checks more boxes than any other in history. Montana only guy with an argument.

If there was one guy I thought could check more boxes, it would have been Aaron Rodgers. That obviously has been derailed. But then, we get the new and improved Rodgers in Pat Mahomes and GOAT is suddenly on the table again.

There's potentially an awful lot of MJ/Bron in Brady/Mahomes.

This is deadly accurate. Much like Allen's most accurate throw yesterday was to Okafor's helmet when he was frustrated.

jfish26 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 10:28 am

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 10:24 am

Cascadia wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 10:19 am There is a difference between being the most successful and being the best.

Sure. Brady, though, just checks more boxes than any other in history. Montana only guy with an argument.

If there was one guy I thought could check more boxes, it would have been Aaron Rodgers. That obviously has been derailed. But then, we get the new and improved Rodgers in Pat Mahomes and GOAT is suddenly on the table again.

There's potentially an awful lot of MJ/Bron in Brady/Mahomes.

Yep. Saw that comparison last night, and the argument will hopefully end up being similar.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 10:24 am

Cascadia wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 10:19 am There is a difference between being the most successful and being the best.

Sure. Brady, though, just checks more boxes than any other in history. Montana only guy with an argument.

If there was one guy I thought could check more boxes, it would have been Aaron Rodgers. That obviously has been derailed. But then, we get the new and improved Rodgers in Pat Mahomes and GOAT is suddenly on the table again.

I'm not saying he doesn't, but he's also behind Kirk Cousins in career Quarterback Rating. The only argument I'm making here is that arguments based on career totals can be very misleading and probably short lived. Just wait until the NFL expands to 17 games (and then 18) and continues to protect QB's so some of them play until they're 48-50. These gaudy career totals won't look so special.

But, he'll always have at least 6.

Cascadia wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 10:36 am

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 10:24 am

Cascadia wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 10:19 am There is a difference between being the most successful and being the best.

Sure. Brady, though, just checks more boxes than any other in history. Montana only guy with an argument.

If there was one guy I thought could check more boxes, it would have been Aaron Rodgers. That obviously has been derailed. But then, we get the new and improved Rodgers in Pat Mahomes and GOAT is suddenly on the table again.

I'm not saying he doesn't, but he's also behind Kirk Cousins in career Quarterback Rating. The only argument I'm making here is that arguments based on career totals can be very misleading and probably short lived. Just wait until the NFL expands to 17 games (and then 18) and continues to protect QB's so some of them play until they're 48-50. These gaudy career totals won't look so special.

But, he'll always have at least 6.

Definitely agree with your point. If it was career totals alone, Brady is probably at or below guys like Brees, Favre. The individual seasons are there, though, with 3 MVP's, particularly the 2007 season being an all-timer. And the the obvious playoff stuff.

And we are getting to where it is even hard now to compare even Manning/Brady to the current younger guys because of the different rules.

pdub wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 7:56 am "I don't think Brady is the GOAT"

Fail.

yeah

i’m as big of a brady hater as anyone, but i can’t deny his talent/ability

I also think we need to starting talking about the Top 5 ______ like this

Player A - Player B - Player C - Player D - Player E

instead of

1. Player A
2. Player B
3. Player C
4. Player D
5. Player E