Kansas Crimson

Posted: **Fri Jun 04, 2021 2:06 pm**

two olds retired, k and roi

who else?

Posted: **Fri Jun 04, 2021 2:12 pm**

I thought about Pitino but the whole scandal and the fact that he's not at a big program bumps him down, IMO.

Wright over Boeheim is something I'd absolutely agree with. It just seems like people like to put olds on there.

Posted: **Fri Jun 04, 2021 2:16 pm**

I think there's a decent argument that Wright is in the George Washington position on that particular Mt. Rushmore.

Posted: **Fri Jun 04, 2021 2:17 pm**

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Fri Jun 04, 2021 2:16 pm I think there's a decent argument that Wright is in the George Washington position on that particular Mt. Rushmore.

Definitely an oversight on my part. My 4 is solid with Wright, Self, Izzo, Cal.

Posted: **Fri Jun 04, 2021 2:19 pm**

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Fri Jun 04, 2021 1:51 pm
NDballer13 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 04, 2021 1:19 pm
BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Fri Jun 04, 2021 11:25 am Since Self has been here he's been better than probably everyone if we are talking winning %. K does have 1 more natty than Self during the KU years.

But resume wise it's really not close.

Self:
729-223 (77%)
1 natty
3 final fours
2x AP COY
1x Naismith COY

K:
1097-302 (78%)
5 nattys
12 final fours
3x Naismith COY

Can't find Self's NCAA tournament only record, but his career tournament record is 49-21 (70%), which i think includes conference tournys.

Ks tournament record is 97-30 (76%) in the NCAA, but 2-2 in the NIT.

Love Self, but his lack of NCAA tournament success when it comes to winning national titles makes it hard for him to get into the convo with guys like K or even Roy imo.
If you were to order these from most important to least important when seeing how great a coach is, how would you do it?

National Title
Conference Title
30 win season

National titles 5-1 K
Conference Titles 19-12 Self
30 win seasons 15-10* K Should be 11, but 2020 technically finished with 28 wins.

It's the same argument I've made about individual team success. Too much emphasis is put on national titles when that is decided by a single elimination, non-series tournament. Natty's and Final Fours are the only thing K has on Self, everything else Self is right with him, or better.

It's not hard, at all, for Self to "get in the convo".
K has more total wins and a better winning %.

So basically everything other than regular season conference titles?

Hate it or love it, national titles matter at a place like Kansas. Self is elite. No denying it, but he's not in the convo with K for best college coach ever.

He has higher totals because he's coached 15 more seasons, lol.

Self actually has a better winning percentage, but we can call that a wash since it comes to the 3rd decimal to separate them.

COY are subjective awards, so those go even lower on the list than titles.

I'm not saying titles shouldn't count. Obviously there's only a select few of the 300+ teams every year who have a chance to win it. If you win, you're obviously great. But people LOOOOVEEE to use rings and titles to separate individuals. That works in sports like golf and tennis. Not team sports.

Posted: **Fri Jun 04, 2021 2:19 pm**

What's crazy is the not so highly regarded guys who are close to being in the conversation:

Bennett, Few, Drew, Huggins

I kinda want Donovan to come back to knock those guys all down a few rungs where they belong.

Posted: **Fri Jun 04, 2021 2:21 pm**

Would Brad Stevens be above Bennett and Drew?

Posted: **Fri Jun 04, 2021 2:24 pm**

I guess it just depends on how you value NC vs Runner up.

Stevens short tenure also probably hurts him.

Which is funny, because I think the longevity of guys like Boeheim and Huggins work against them.

Posted: **Fri Jun 04, 2021 2:25 pm**

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Fri Jun 04, 2021 2:21 pm Would Brad Stevens be above Bennett and Drew?

Yeah and I don't think it's particularly close. Not many better Xs and Os guy than Stevens.

Posted: **Fri Jun 04, 2021 2:27 pm**

For me, Bennett's loss to a 16 seed almost negates the natty. I mean, it stands alone as the worst loss in tournament history. There's a champion every year (except 2020)...but that loss is like once in a generation bad.

I'd put Stevens ahead of Drew, but that's probably just because of my KU fandom. If Drew had the same resume but in a different conference, I might not be as down on him as I am.

Posted: **Fri Jun 04, 2021 2:29 pm**

Unless Bennett wins another one, I am not sure he won't be more remembered for UMBC than the natty.

Posted: **Fri Jun 04, 2021 2:30 pm**

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Fri Jun 04, 2021 1:19 pm I'm sure they did hire a search committee...that doesn't mean they didn't have "Their guy" already. But you probably put out some feelers, if for no other reason than to see how the job is being viewed, so...is Brad Stevens even interested...Would Mike Brey take it for cheap...and, to determine things like Scheyer's asking price and maybe do a basic background check on him...etc.

Not sure if they felt obligated but supposedly they did interview a Black man.
PERHAPS that played a part in their reasoning for feeling the need to put out the public statement?

Posted: **Fri Jun 04, 2021 2:31 pm**

Rick Pitino will have Iona in the Final Four in a couple of years.

Next to Larry Brown, he is the best basketball coach in the world.

Just watch. Pitino can take a cab to Harlem and field a team.

Posted: **Fri Jun 04, 2021 3:24 pm**

HCBS, Izzo, Calipari, Wright.

easy peasy.

Posted: **Fri Jun 04, 2021 3:53 pm**

Leawood wrote: ↑Fri Jun 04, 2021 2:31 pm Rick Pitino will have Iona in the Final Four in a couple of years.

Next to Larry Brown, he is the best basketball coach in the world.

Just watch. Pitino can take a cab to Harlem and field a team.

You very well may be right. I feel Pitino can certainly turn Iona in to a Gonzaga type team.
He has some "raw" recruits but all it takes is a triple (think home run) signing and some quality guys will follow.
Maybe he can get wealthy alums such as Don Bye Bye Miss American Pie McLean and John My Wife Is Geraldine Ferraro Zacarro to "take care of" some recruits/player's family members.
Stay tuned.

Posted: **Fri Jun 04, 2021 6:09 pm**

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Fri Jun 04, 2021 2:17 pm
PhDhawk wrote: ↑Fri Jun 04, 2021 2:16 pm I think there's a decent argument that Wright is in the George Washington position on that particular Mt. Rushmore.
Definitely an oversight on my part. My 4 is solid with Wright, Self, Izzo, Cal.

Agreed.

Posted: **Fri Jun 04, 2021 6:13 pm**

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Fri Jun 04, 2021 2:21 pm Would Brad Stevens be above Bennett and Drew?

No

Posted: **Fri Jun 04, 2021 6:15 pm**

Uh...Bruce Weber?

Posted: **Fri Jun 04, 2021 6:16 pm**

I'm putting Stevens over Drew.
Deal with it.

Posted: **Fri Jun 04, 2021 6:18 pm**

NewtonHawk11 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 04, 2021 2:25 pm
CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Fri Jun 04, 2021 2:21 pm Would Brad Stevens be above Bennett and Drew?
Yeah and I don't think it's particularly close. Not many better Xs and Os guy than Stevens.

Didn't watch much of him with the Celtics?

Every college coach looks like they're great with Xs and Os when they've got NBA caliber players....and when they had their hot run he had 3 or 4 guys end up in the NBA (Hayward obviously the best of the bunch). I think he's a really good coach. I don't think he's any superior to all the guys being discussed above.

And his Xs and Os didn't look all that great at times during his time as NBA coach. But looks like his coaching days are done.

Kansas Crimson

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