Gotta love our news networks. CNN scours the earth to find former military members to say positive things about this. Fox scours the earth to find former military members to say negative things about this.
Basically where i stand is that regardless of how it started and how it ended the world is significantly less safe now. And thousands will be murdered for their roles in helping the United States over the last 20+ years.
The blame game is pointless in this instance. Scoring political "gotcha" points on a messageboard is all fun and games, but in the end this day eventually had to come and people have to stand on their own 2 feet. That is not our country and we are not capable of major influence on changing culture in that part of the region. Many of the men in that part of the world have much different values than some of us do.
We have a thread making fun of religious people on this site. That is not the prevailing mindset over there. Extremely religious people, willing to die for their god/mission.
They'll probably ask why we didn't want the Cubans?
Tony Montana seemed pretty cool.
Rubbeeennnggaaaaa
Love that movie.
Re: Afghanistan
Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2021 9:02 am
by twocoach
BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Wed Aug 18, 2021 8:57 am
Gotta love our news networks. CNN scours the earth to find former military members to say positive things about this. Fox scours the earth to find former military members to say negative things about this.
Basically where i stand is that regardless of how it started and how it ended the world is significantly less safe now. And thousands will be murdered for their roles in helping the United States over the last 20+ years.
The blame game is pointless in this instance. Scoring political "gotcha" points on a messageboard is all fun and games, but in the end this day eventually had to come and people have to stand on their own 2 feet. That is not our country and we are not capable of major influence on changing culture in that part of the region. Many of the men in that part of the world have much different values than some of us do.
We have a thread making fun of religious people on this site. That is not the prevailing mindset over there. Extremely religious people, willing to die for their god/mission.
Wasn't this you an hour ago?
"BIDEN is the president. His team is the one who fucked up this exit. He had every chance to break the agreement. He chose not to."
BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Wed Aug 18, 2021 8:57 am
Gotta love our news networks. CNN scours the earth to find former military members to say positive things about this. Fox scours the earth to find former military members to say negative things about this.
Basically where i stand is that regardless of how it started and how it ended the world is significantly less safe now. And thousands will be murdered for their roles in helping the United States over the last 20+ years.
The blame game is pointless in this instance. Scoring political "gotcha" points on a messageboard is all fun and games, but in the end this day eventually had to come and people have to stand on their own 2 feet. That is not our country and we are not capable of major influence on changing culture in that part of the region. Many of the men in that part of the world have much different values than some of us do.
We have a thread making fun of religious people on this site. That is not the prevailing mindset over there. Extremely religious people, willing to die for their god/mission.
Wasn't this you an hour ago?
"BIDEN is the president. His team is the one who fucked up this exit. He had every chance to break the agreement. He chose not to."
Sure was.
You started in with some dumbass statement about how the entire GOP hates gays and women...that's false. And dumb.
This mess, the exit mess, is completely on Biden. He is the one in charge now. They claimed to have ALL the scenarios covered. They are the ones who planned the exit. They either lied or were incompetent at their job.
Some of you (the ultra partisan crowd) refuse to ever hold "your side" accountable (whichever side that is....and yes both sides do it). And then it is hilarious to see the blaming of Trump after 4 years of losing your shit whenever someone said "but Obama..." or "but Hillary...".
It's why many people can't stand the leftys.
(I am sure now i will need to provide the reasons why many people can't stand rightys...?)
Re: Afghanistan
Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2021 9:12 am
by Deleted User 863
Wait a minute...you're supposed to be having a great day!
Re: Afghanistan
Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2021 9:23 am
by ousdahl
We bicker about whether to blame Biden or Trump…meanwhile, somewhere in west Texas, W is laughing and clearing brush.
BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Wed Aug 18, 2021 8:57 am
Gotta love our news networks. CNN scours the earth to find former military members to say positive things about this. Fox scours the earth to find former military members to say negative things about this.
Basically where i stand is that regardless of how it started and how it ended the world is significantly less safe now. And thousands will be murdered for their roles in helping the United States over the last 20+ years.
The blame game is pointless in this instance. Scoring political "gotcha" points on a messageboard is all fun and games, but in the end this day eventually had to come and people have to stand on their own 2 feet. That is not our country and we are not capable of major influence on changing culture in that part of the region. Many of the men in that part of the world have much different values than some of us do.
We have a thread making fun of religious people on this site. That is not the prevailing mindset over there. Extremely religious people, willing to die for their god/mission.
Wasn't this you an hour ago?
"BIDEN is the president. His team is the one who fucked up this exit. He had every chance to break the agreement. He chose not to."
Sure was.
You started in with some dumbass statement about how the entire GOP hates gays and women...that's false. And dumb.
This mess, the exit mess, is completely on Biden. He is the one in charge now. They claimed to have ALL the scenarios covered. They are the ones who planned the exit. They either lied or were incompetent at their job.
Some of you (the ultra partisan crowd) refuse to ever hold "your side" accountable (whichever side that is....and yes both sides do it). And then it is hilarious to see the blaming of Trump after 4 years of losing your shit whenever someone said "but Obama..." or "but Hillary...".
It's why many people can't stand the leftys.
(I am sure now i will need to provide the reasons why many people can't stand rightys...?)
It was a comment about how similar some of the platform stances between the GOP and the Taliban are. There are many GOP states actively making changes to laws to reduce women's rights, rights of the LGBTQ community, etc... that is not false. It is 100% true.
Yes, this obviously could have been done "better". Biden and his team should have been more skeptical of any opinion given to them that the Afghan military was ready, willing and capable to take over. They were none of those things.
Re: Afghanistan
Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2021 9:29 am
by japhy
TDub wrote: ↑Tue Aug 17, 2021 9:36 pm
A Chinese backed taliban....what could possibly go wrong.
The Chinese seem more pragmatic and transactional about their "backing". The Russians/Putin like chaos because it distracts attention from their failures and issues. The Chinese are in sales mode. Chaos is not good for business unless all you have to sell are weapons and oil. The Chinese have a lot of consumer goods to sell, those purchases only occur when there is stability. It's just another market gain for the Chinese. It is a very small market but it gives the Chinese a gain in the region. Their investment will be less about influence and political affiliation/cultural change and more about ROI and ability to pay back.
Putin only invests in something that will pay off in his lifetime. He has no plan for Russia's future. The Chinese play the long game.
TDub wrote: ↑Tue Aug 17, 2021 9:36 pm
A Chinese backed taliban....what could possibly go wrong.
The Chinese seem more pragmatic and transactional about their "backing". The Russians/Putin like chaos because it distracts attention from their failures and issues. The Chinese are in sales mode. Chaos is not good for business unless all you have to sell are weapons and oil. The Chinese have a lot of consumer goods to sell, those purchases only occur when there is stability. It's just another market gain for the Chinese. It is a very small market but it gives the Chinese a gain in the region. Their investment will be less about influence and political affiliation/cultural change and more about ROI and ability to pay back.
Putin only invests in something that will pay off in his lifetime. He has no plan for Russia's future. The Chinese play the long game.
^^^^
this x 1000
china does the same thing in africa. they aren’t there supporting boko haram. they are there building bridges, and selling shitty light fixtures and shovels
Re: Afghanistan
Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2021 9:36 am
by ousdahl
If the Chinese are building bridges and selling shit, then just what was Merica doing there again?
Re: Afghanistan
Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2021 9:38 am
by Deleted User 863
twocoach wrote: ↑Wed Aug 18, 2021 9:23 am
It was a comment about how similar some of the platform stances between the GOP and the Taliban are. There are many GOP states actively making changes to laws to reduce women's rights, rights of the LGBTQ community, etc... that is not false. It is 100% true.
Yes, this obviously could have been done "better". Biden and his team should have been more skeptical of any opinion given to them that the Afghan military was ready, willing and capable to take over. They were none of those things.
Sorry. Hard to take someone serious who thinks the GOP and Taliban are similar.
Have a great day B!
Re: Afghanistan
Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2021 9:38 am
by Deleted User 89
ousdahl wrote: ↑Wed Aug 18, 2021 9:36 am
If the Chinese are building bridges and selling shit, then just what was Merica doing there again?
i see your point, but china isn’t doing that yet...to my knowledge they haven’t done much of anything yet
my point was that china having a relationship with the afghanis isn’t necessarily all that bad, despite TDub’s doom and gloom forecast
TDub wrote: ↑Tue Aug 17, 2021 9:36 pm
A Chinese backed taliban....what could possibly go wrong.
The Chinese seem more pragmatic and transactional about their "backing". The Russians/Putin like chaos because it distracts attention from their failures and issues. The Chinese are in sales mode. Chaos is not good for business unless all you have to sell are weapons and oil. The Chinese have a lot of consumer goods to sell, those purchases only occur when there is stability. It's just another market gain for the Chinese. It is a very small market but it gives the Chinese a gain in the region. Their investment will be less about influence and political affiliation/cultural change and more about ROI and ability to pay back.
Putin only invests in something that will pay off in his lifetime. He has no plan for Russia's future. The Chinese play the long game.
China knows even people in Afghanistan use smart phones and have TVs in their houses.
BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Wed Aug 18, 2021 8:57 am
Gotta love our news networks. CNN scours the earth to find former military members to say positive things about this. Fox scours the earth to find former military members to say negative things about this.
Basically where i stand is that regardless of how it started and how it ended the world is significantly less safe now. And thousands will be murdered for their roles in helping the United States over the last 20+ years.
The blame game is pointless in this instance. Scoring political "gotcha" points on a messageboard is all fun and games, but in the end this day eventually had to come and people have to stand on their own 2 feet. That is not our country and we are not capable of major influence on changing culture in that part of the region. Many of the men in that part of the world have much different values than some of us do.
We have a thread making fun of religious people on this site. That is not the prevailing mindset over there. Extremely religious people, willing to die for their god/mission.
Wasn't this you an hour ago?
"BIDEN is the president. His team is the one who fucked up this exit. He had every chance to break the agreement. He chose not to."
Sure was.
You started in with some dumbass statement about how the entire GOP hates gays and women...that's false. And dumb.
This mess, the exit mess, is completely on Biden. He is the one in charge now. They claimed to have ALL the scenarios covered. They are the ones who planned the exit. They either lied or were incompetent at their job.
Some of you (the ultra partisan crowd) refuse to ever hold "your side" accountable (whichever side that is....and yes both sides do it). And then it is hilarious to see the blaming of Trump after 4 years of losing your shit whenever someone said "but Obama..." or "but Hillary...".
It's why many people can't stand the leftys.
(I am sure now i will need to provide the reasons why many people can't stand rightys...?)
I don't think there's any serious person who would say that this is all one party's fault or the other's.
Re: Afghanistan
Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2021 9:47 am
by japhy
twocoach wrote: ↑Wed Aug 18, 2021 9:23 am
Yes, this obviously could have been done "better". Biden and his team should have been more skeptical of any opinion given to them that the Afghan military was ready, willing and capable to take over. They were none of those things.
I listened to an interview of a US military trainer who spent a decade in Afghanistan training their military. He said our biggest mistake was we tried to build an army in the image of the army here in the US. We built an army that did not have a country, there is no United Afghanistan. There are just local districts and militia. The army became a training ground and weapons supply for the militias. When it came time to fight for their country, there was no country to fight for.
At this point our people are too busy trying to spin blame to take a serious look at what went wrong and how to avoid wasting money and lives again.
In the meantime local militias are training themselves in the "United" States military.
Re: Afghanistan
Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2021 9:50 am
by ousdahl
I know we’re saying things like we “wasted” money and lives there and what went wrong, but pretty sure the military industrial complex considers the last 20 years an enormous win.
Re: Afghanistan
Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2021 9:53 am
by Deleted User 863
jfish26 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 18, 2021 9:40 am
I don't think there's any serious person who would say that this is all one party's fault or the other's.
Agreed.
Plenty of blame to go around. And also, some of this really doesn't need blame to be placed on anyone. It's just the nature of the beast in that region. Hard to help people who hate you.
Re: Afghanistan
Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2021 9:56 am
by Deleted User 863
ousdahl wrote: ↑Wed Aug 18, 2021 9:50 am
I know we’re saying things like we “wasted” money and lives there and what went wrong, but pretty sure the military industrial complex considers the last 20 years an enormous win.
Do they?
Which parts?
The majority of actual soldiers who risk their lives don't seem to think so...but that is just a small part of the "military industrial complex" you're mentioning.
Also, is this military industrial complex you speak of similar to the "deep state"?
jfish26 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 18, 2021 9:40 am
I don't think there's any serious person who would say that this is all one party's fault or the other's.
Agreed.
Plenty of blame to go around. And also, some of this really doesn't need blame to be placed on anyone. It's just the nature of the beast in that region. Hard to help people who hate you.
MICHHAWK wrote: ↑Mon Aug 16, 2021 8:01 am
The guy sitting in the chair owns it. That is the way it works.
Hard to disagree with that.
Yup. He sure does. Biden owns the exit strategy. It happened on his watch. His team developed it. His team implemented it (or lack thereof). What is happening right now Biden owns.
But Biden isn't responsible for the entire Afghanistan mess.
Are you purposely trying to ignore any nuance to the discussion? Or just want to argue nonsense today?
Just let me know. Slow day here working for the man, but i do have school pick up for my kid at 2ish so i only have a handful of hours to play the messageboard games.