Kansas Crimson

eyeah, thanks. I shouldn't read these articles before I've had any coffee.

and yeah, even if Kansas gave Zion impermissible benefits out the ass, that would taint his amateur status regardless of where he played, right? and yet, no one is dragging Dook and K's name through the mud

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Thu May 07, 2020 8:04 pm

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Thu May 07, 2020 6:00 pm

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Thu May 07, 2020 5:37 pm Not sure playing the ignorance card is going to work with the ncaa. Especially not with the texts out there.

Obviously deny deny deny...and hope for the best...but that response doesn't look good for KU/Self/Townsend.

You've always been ignorant on this.

That's fair enough...

I understand there is a difference between what can they "prove" and what is the "truth".

I think the truth is closer to what the ncaa alleges.

I think what can they "prove beyond a reasonable doubt" is closer to how you feel about this.

It's very telling that the NCAA's case hinges so hard on adidas being a booster.

Even douches like Mike Brey and Mark Few can understand how dangerous that precedent would be.

and again, this bullshit:

“The institution secured significant recruiting and competitive advantages by committing alleged Level I men’s basketball violations. The institution, in taking its defiant posture in the case, is indifferent to how its alleged violations may have adversely impacted other NCAA institutions who acted in compliance with NCAA legislation.”

considering we sat the players in question over and over again, specifically what recruiting and competitive advantage do they think we received?

competitively, I guess maybe we forced Tennessee State to waste time in their scouting report on a guy who wasn't actually gonna play. but other than that...?

and in terms of recruiting advantages, that's quite a pitch: "come to KU so we can voluntarily hold you out!"

The caveat that lawyers are over the top and use eyerolling hyperbolic language in these type of docs--think Nancy Grace--but that quote makes me think the NCAA is made up of a bunch of Bruce "poor me" Weber's.

Fucking nauseating.

yeah for real.

again, I'm biased, but the report seems light on logic and heavy on the butthurt.

Which, isn't great.

Where illy is right is that the NCAA gets to pretty much play judge and jury. They've shown plenty that proving wrongdoing isn't the bar. KU's lawyers are good and armed. But, at the top of the list of discomfort to me is that they might be poking the bear too hard.

well, what were we supposed to do short of poking the bear, just sit back and take it?

doesn't this eventually get to some sort of independent review committee? How could an objective trier of fact side with the NCAA in this one?

and say the hammer does come down on KU. How does the NCAA even survive the whole shoe-companies-are-boosters argument in the long run?

I think the only other route, and perhaps the better one, is to fight the bigger fight.

Smirk and say, us and everyone else, because the entire amateurism system is an absolute joke.

Yes. I think Self should have come out and been honest about everything. Literally everything. Expose the culture that is already pretty obvious to most.

Do I think Self asked about how much players were being paid? No.

Do I think Self knew players were getting paid/impermissible benefits by adidas and others? Yes.

Do I think SDS, Preston, and Zion (?) are the only players we've had that were offered or took impermissible benefits? LOL of course not....Josh Jackson was also mentioned in the trials as being "well taken care of".

This is literally everywhere. Not just KU. But we're the ones on wiretaps/texts, so we are in a bad spot.

All good except the last sentence.

I believe Deandre Ayton was mentioned as well.

how do we get a competitive advantage for number-1-pick talent to play at other schools?

ousdahl wrote: ↑Fri May 08, 2020 9:39 am doesn't this eventually get to some sort of independent review committee? How could an objective trier of fact side with the NCAA in this one?

Maybe?...but again you're saying "fact" in a way that relates to criminal trials and proving stuff in a court of law....i think the fact is we broke the rules, even if they can't really prove it.

I think most of us, if we're being honest with ourselves, can admit that KU has been knowingly breaking the rules (yes so have most everyone else, but thats not the point)....we got "caught" (sort of).

I think most also can agree that they can't really "prove it beyond a reasonable doubt" that our coaches knew (although the townsend texts are pretty incriminating, but only in theory about what we'd be willing to do since we didn't even get Zion)....but i don't think they really have to prove it. I think they know we're "guilty", and I also think they know many others are also guilty....they just didn't have fbi help for everyone else...so they're going to make examples of the handful of schools caught up in the fbi stuff and hope that's enough to get everyone else to follow the rules (which they won't/don't).

ousdahl wrote: ↑Fri May 08, 2020 10:04 am I believe Deandre Ayton was mentioned as well.

how do we get a competitive advantage for number-1-pick talent to play at other schools?

Yes true....

and in general between the various trials, there was enough "evidence" for me to feel confident that I can safely say almost all of the top 50+ players are getting some form of impermissible benefits (if they want to accept them, which I'm sure some don't).

ousdahl wrote: ↑Fri May 08, 2020 9:39 am
doesn't this eventually get to some sort of independent review committee? How could an objective trier of fact side with the NCAA in this one?

I'm pretty sure this is the point they are at right now. After the NCAA's response, and KU's response to that response, it is now in the hands of that independent committee. Their ruling is final, with no appeals on either side.

Like other have stated, once this is out of the hands of the NCAA's hand picked kangaroo court, KU's odds of coming out ahead get better and better.

how can you presume KU has been knowingly breaking the rules when there's an FBI trial that says we didn't know? The ones who did know were found guilty of defrauding the university.

I think KT's texts are certainly fishy, but also only as incriminating as the exact terms and conditions he discussed. Short of "we'll get Zion xxx dollars in exchange for xxx occurring," I just don't think "we'll do what we can" is really that damning.

and there are plenty of schools caught up in the FBI stuff, including schools who enjoyed the competitive and recruiting advantages of playing the guys named in this very report, yet KU somehow ended up thee scapegoat for it all?

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Fri May 08, 2020 10:05 am i don't think they really have to prove it. I think they know we're "guilty"

dude, have you considered becoming a lawyer for the NCAA?

NDballer13 wrote: ↑Fri May 08, 2020 10:11 amAfter the NCAA's response, and KU's response to that response, it is now in the hands of that independent committee.

I haven't seen that we are definitely going to be under the new committee's jurisdiction, unless I missed something.

ousdahl wrote: ↑Fri May 08, 2020 10:18 am how can you presume KU has been knowingly breaking the rules when there's an FBI trial that says we didn't know? The ones who did know were found guilty of defrauding the university.

I think KT's texts are certainly fishy, but also only as incriminating as the exact terms and conditions he discussed. Short of "we'll get Zion xxx dollars in exchange for xxx occurring," I just don't think "we'll do what we can" is really that damning.

and there are plenty of schools caught up in the FBI stuff, including schools who enjoyed the competitive and recruiting advantages of playing the guys named in this very report, yet KU somehow ended up thee scapegoat for it all?

Texts aren't close to as bad as illy aka NCAA makes them out to be. What makes them weak is that they are so easily explained away. Even if you believe it or not. Again, that is partly why the NCAA is hammering so hard that adidas is a booster.

If that new committee isn’t available in a situation such as this, then what’s the committee even for?

To me it looks like situation of "be careful what you wish for."