What happened to the immigration thread?

[zsn]

US citizens are breaking the law when undocumented workers work in the US.

Did I say something to the contrary? This yeah-but-ism is kinda dum.

Show me one example where either Trump 1.0 or 2.0 (or any of his wannabe lessers, like Abbott or DeSantis) has said/done anything about addressing that side of the equation. When they have accidentally strayed near it they have been ordered to back off by their cronies.

[jfish26]

US citizens are breaking the law when undocumented workers work in the US.

Did I say something to the contrary? This yeah-but-ism is kinda dum.

Show me one example where either Trump 1.0 or 2.0 (or any of his wannabe lessers, like Abbott or DeSantis) has said/done anything about addressing that side of the equation. When they have accidentally strayed near it they have been ordered to back off by their cronies.

We could start by seeing Mar-a-Lago's I-9 history.

[JKLivin]

US citizens are breaking the law when undocumented workers work in the US.

Did I say something to the contrary? This yeah-but-ism is kinda dum.

Show me one example where either Trump 1.0 or 2.0 (or any of his wannabe lessers, like Abbott or DeSantis) has said/done anything about addressing that side of the equation. When they have accidentally strayed near it they have been ordered to back off by their cronies.

I don’t speak for Trump, Abbott, or DeSantis, and, to date, none have solicited my opinion on the matter.

[JKLivin]

And nor will JK get thrown into a private prison camp for failing to have his registration in the glove box on whatever day he happens to get pulled over for expired tags.

Yet another of the many benefits of being a law-abiding citizen.

But I think we all know that very, very many "law-abiding citizens" are susceptible to being caught in dragnets like this.

How many weeks spent by a law-abiding citizen in a private prison camp because they didn't have their social security card on them when stopped and frisked is too many weeks?

Three weeks?

Ten?

How do we know that?

[jfish26]

Yet another of the many benefits of being a law-abiding citizen.

But I think we all know that very, very many "law-abiding citizens" are susceptible to being caught in dragnets like this.

How many weeks spent by a law-abiding citizen in a private prison camp because they didn't have their social security card on them when stopped and frisked is too many weeks?

Three weeks?

Ten?

How do we know that?

Because things like that happen frequently, when we see less than 1/10th of the amount of annual arrests that you have voted for.

https://www.latimes.com/archives/story/ ... -1273-days

Since 2012, ICE has released from its custody more than 1,480 people after investigating their citizenship claims, according to agency figures. And a Times review of Department of Justice records and interviews with immigration attorneys uncovered hundreds of additional cases in the country’s immigration courts in which people were forced to prove they are Americans and sometimes spent months or even years in detention.

Victims include a landscaper snatched in a Home Depot parking lot in Rialto and held for days despite his son’s attempts to show agents the man’s U.S. passport; a New York resident locked up for more than three years fighting deportation efforts after a federal agent mistook his father for someone who wasn’t a U.S. citizen; and a Rhode Island housekeeper mistakenly targeted twice, resulting in her spending a night in prison the second time even though her husband had brought her U.S. passport to a court hearing.

[...]

The errors reveal flaws in the way ICE identifies people for deportation, including its reliance on databases that are incomplete and plagued by mistakes. The wrongful arrests also highlight a presumption that pervades U.S. immigration agencies and courts that those born outside the United States are not here legally unless electronic records show otherwise. And when mistakes are not quickly remedied, citizens are forced into an immigration court system where they must fight to prove they should not be removed from the country, often without the help of an attorney.

[...]

In the seven and a half years ending in February, ICE reviewed 8,043 citizenship claims of people in custody, according to figures provided by Department of Homeland Security. In 1,488 -- nearly a fifth of those cases -- ICE lawyers concluded the evidence “tended to show that the individual may, in fact, be a U.S. citizen,” a DHS spokeswoman said.

The largest number of those arrests occurred in 2012 and 2013 -- at the height of an aggressive push by the Obama administration to deport unauthorized immigrants. When Obama reversed course and took a more selective approach, the number of citizenship cases dropped significantly.

[twocoach]

Why should I have to prove that I own this car I’m driving around?

Why do I need to prove ownership of this house I’m squatting in?

No one pulls you over exclusively to check your registration or comes to your door asking you to prove that you live in the house you're residing in.

True, but I’m not sucking the life out of the nation’s economy, nor am I breaking the law by being here. So, there’s that.

Neither are illegal immigrants. You've just been duped into believing that is the case by your choice of media input.

We will see soon enough whether removing them helps our economy or hurts. I don't recommend you place any bets on it.

[MICHHAWK]

there is not one single media output in the United States that does not agree that we need tougher borders. every single one knows we need to tighten things up.




except the view. but the view does not count as media output. so they don't count for nothing. but bigmouth brawds. minus the farrah girl. i like her lots.

[jfish26]

There go those goalposts again!

[jfish26]

This is fine, it seems fine.

(It will not be fine.)

Border Militias Prepare to Assist With Donald Trump’s Mass Deportation Plans

Militias that patrol the US border with Mexico are thrilled that Donald Trump has been elected—and plan to be a “valuable resource” to the incoming administration, whether or not they’re asked.

https://www.wired.com/story/border-mili ... nts-trump/

Militias operating along the US–Mexico border plan to continue their vigilante operations once president-elect Donald Trump takes office, and some see themselves as acting in concert with military and federal agents to execute mass deportation plans.

It’s unclear how this would work in practice, but Tim Foley, head of Arizona Border Recon, a “civilian patrol group” based out of Altar Valley that claims to disrupt smuggling and trafficking routes, tells WIRED he has been in contact with the incoming Trump administration and that he expects to be a valuable resource to them.

[...]

Over the past two decades, vigilantes armed with guns and nativist rhetoric—and increasingly, with drones and high-tech trail cams—have acted with impunity, positioning themselves as authorities in borderlands in Arizona, New Mexico, and Texas, muddying the line between civilian and official, hunting down asylum seekers, and even taking groups of migrants “into custody” before handing them over to the feds. Earlier this month, two leaders of a militia were convicted on federal charges for plotting to hunt and kill migrants and federal border agents.

And now, as Trump prepares to take office in January, Foley isn’t the only one in this space who sees a place for vigilantes on the border. Other paramilitary groups and civilians also hope that they’ll be welcome to assist in the enforcement of Trump’s hardline immigration policies.

On Monday, via a post on Truth Social, Trump confirmed that his administration will utilize the military to conduct mass deportations. Mass deportations and reversing what he deemed an “invasion” permitted by the Biden administration were part of a cornerstone of Trump’s presidential campaign. It appears that proposed members of Trump’s administration are open to civilian assistance on the border, too: Last week, during an appearance on Fox & Friends, incoming “border czar” Thomas Homan said that he has been bombarded by messages from veterans and former agents offering to assist border operations. “There's a lot of good patriots,” Homan said. “Thousands of retired agents, border patrol agents, retired military who have volunteered to help secure the border.”

[...]

Foley says that his group currently has about six dozen volunteers who go out on border operations, often for a week at a time. They collect intel via trail cameras they’ve dotted around, take footage from a distance using drones, and take photos or videos using cameras mounted on spotting scopes.

Veterans on Patrol (VOP), based out of Pima County is another paramilitary group that operates along the Arizona border. Their leader, Michael “Lewis Arthur” Meyer, a Christian nationalist with an extensive criminal record, tells WIRED that they also have no plans to stand down operations. But VOP, which was initially founded in 2015 out of concern for the veteran suicide rate but morphed into an outfit for far-right vigilantism, operates differently than Arizona Border Recon. According to the Southern Poverty Law Center, VOP has “incorporated QAnon conspiracy theories into their activities as well … under the exaggerated premise that they are rescuing children from satanic pedophiles.” (Veterans on Patrol also recently made headlines for making threats toward the US military, who they believe was responsible for manufacturing October’s Hurricane Milton).

Meyer told WIRED that he found God after spending time in juvenile detention facilities (and extended periods of solitary confinement) for a litany of violent crimes. He believes his group’s border activities are sanctioned by God, and he doesn’t have to answer to federal law.

[...]

He and other members of VOP decide which migrants are “good” and and who are “bad,” claiming that they help the former, including women and children, while turning over the latter to federal agents.

Meyer doesn’t care if his activities interfere with Trump’s plans. “Who gives Trump authority to decide who is good or bad?” Meyer told WIRED. “We have the authority, because our authority comes from our most high God.”

[Overlander]

Yeah, this shit will start at the borders, where it will be fine tuned and perfected.

Then, branch out rapidly, to YOUR town.

See 1990s Idaho if you need a reference. I spent a ton of time there, and what was happening there scared the shit out of me.

[twocoach]

[twocoach]

This is fine, it seems fine.

(It will not be fine.)

Border Militias Prepare to Assist With Donald Trump’s Mass Deportation Plans

Militias that patrol the US border with Mexico are thrilled that Donald Trump has been elected—and plan to be a “valuable resource” to the incoming administration, whether or not they’re asked.

https://www.wired.com/story/border-mili ... nts-trump/

Militias operating along the US–Mexico border plan to continue their vigilante operations once president-elect Donald Trump takes office, and some see themselves as acting in concert with military and federal agents to execute mass deportation plans.

It’s unclear how this would work in practice, but Tim Foley, head of Arizona Border Recon, a “civilian patrol group” based out of Altar Valley that claims to disrupt smuggling and trafficking routes, tells WIRED he has been in contact with the incoming Trump administration and that he expects to be a valuable resource to them.

[...]

Over the past two decades, vigilantes armed with guns and nativist rhetoric—and increasingly, with drones and high-tech trail cams—have acted with impunity, positioning themselves as authorities in borderlands in Arizona, New Mexico, and Texas, muddying the line between civilian and official, hunting down asylum seekers, and even taking groups of migrants “into custody” before handing them over to the feds. Earlier this month, two leaders of a militia were convicted on federal charges for plotting to hunt and kill migrants and federal border agents.

And now, as Trump prepares to take office in January, Foley isn’t the only one in this space who sees a place for vigilantes on the border. Other paramilitary groups and civilians also hope that they’ll be welcome to assist in the enforcement of Trump’s hardline immigration policies.

On Monday, via a post on Truth Social, Trump confirmed that his administration will utilize the military to conduct mass deportations. Mass deportations and reversing what he deemed an “invasion” permitted by the Biden administration were part of a cornerstone of Trump’s presidential campaign. It appears that proposed members of Trump’s administration are open to civilian assistance on the border, too: Last week, during an appearance on Fox & Friends, incoming “border czar” Thomas Homan said that he has been bombarded by messages from veterans and former agents offering to assist border operations. “There's a lot of good patriots,” Homan said. “Thousands of retired agents, border patrol agents, retired military who have volunteered to help secure the border.”

[...]

Foley says that his group currently has about six dozen volunteers who go out on border operations, often for a week at a time. They collect intel via trail cameras they’ve dotted around, take footage from a distance using drones, and take photos or videos using cameras mounted on spotting scopes.

Veterans on Patrol (VOP), based out of Pima County is another paramilitary group that operates along the Arizona border. Their leader, Michael “Lewis Arthur” Meyer, a Christian nationalist with an extensive criminal record, tells WIRED that they also have no plans to stand down operations. But VOP, which was initially founded in 2015 out of concern for the veteran suicide rate but morphed into an outfit for far-right vigilantism, operates differently than Arizona Border Recon. According to the Southern Poverty Law Center, VOP has “incorporated QAnon conspiracy theories into their activities as well … under the exaggerated premise that they are rescuing children from satanic pedophiles.” (Veterans on Patrol also recently made headlines for making threats toward the US military, who they believe was responsible for manufacturing October’s Hurricane Milton).

Meyer told WIRED that he found God after spending time in juvenile detention facilities (and extended periods of solitary confinement) for a litany of violent crimes. He believes his group’s border activities are sanctioned by God, and he doesn’t have to answer to federal law.

[...]

He and other members of VOP decide which migrants are “good” and and who are “bad,” claiming that they help the former, including women and children, while turning over the latter to federal agents.

Meyer doesn’t care if his activities interfere with Trump’s plans. “Who gives Trump authority to decide who is good or bad?” Meyer told WIRED. “We have the authority, because our authority comes from our most high God.”

Hey, if a bunch of militia members want to volunteer to guard our border, go for it. So long as they realize they have no legal standing and are not law enforcement, that's great. They have talked all the talk, let them walk the walk.

[jfish26]

Ok, now run that back, but assume that the militia members are operating with a blanket pardon in hand.

[Overlander]

This is fine, it seems fine.

(It will not be fine.)

Border Militias Prepare to Assist With Donald Trump’s Mass Deportation Plans

Militias that patrol the US border with Mexico are thrilled that Donald Trump has been elected—and plan to be a “valuable resource” to the incoming administration, whether or not they’re asked.

https://www.wired.com/story/border-mili ... nts-trump/

Militias operating along the US–Mexico border plan to continue their vigilante operations once president-elect Donald Trump takes office, and some see themselves as acting in concert with military and federal agents to execute mass deportation plans.

It’s unclear how this would work in practice, but Tim Foley, head of Arizona Border Recon, a “civilian patrol group” based out of Altar Valley that claims to disrupt smuggling and trafficking routes, tells WIRED he has been in contact with the incoming Trump administration and that he expects to be a valuable resource to them.

[...]

Over the past two decades, vigilantes armed with guns and nativist rhetoric—and increasingly, with drones and high-tech trail cams—have acted with impunity, positioning themselves as authorities in borderlands in Arizona, New Mexico, and Texas, muddying the line between civilian and official, hunting down asylum seekers, and even taking groups of migrants “into custody” before handing them over to the feds. Earlier this month, two leaders of a militia were convicted on federal charges for plotting to hunt and kill migrants and federal border agents.

And now, as Trump prepares to take office in January, Foley isn’t the only one in this space who sees a place for vigilantes on the border. Other paramilitary groups and civilians also hope that they’ll be welcome to assist in the enforcement of Trump’s hardline immigration policies.

On Monday, via a post on Truth Social, Trump confirmed that his administration will utilize the military to conduct mass deportations. Mass deportations and reversing what he deemed an “invasion” permitted by the Biden administration were part of a cornerstone of Trump’s presidential campaign. It appears that proposed members of Trump’s administration are open to civilian assistance on the border, too: Last week, during an appearance on Fox & Friends, incoming “border czar” Thomas Homan said that he has been bombarded by messages from veterans and former agents offering to assist border operations. “There's a lot of good patriots,” Homan said. “Thousands of retired agents, border patrol agents, retired military who have volunteered to help secure the border.”

[...]

Foley says that his group currently has about six dozen volunteers who go out on border operations, often for a week at a time. They collect intel via trail cameras they’ve dotted around, take footage from a distance using drones, and take photos or videos using cameras mounted on spotting scopes.

Veterans on Patrol (VOP), based out of Pima County is another paramilitary group that operates along the Arizona border. Their leader, Michael “Lewis Arthur” Meyer, a Christian nationalist with an extensive criminal record, tells WIRED that they also have no plans to stand down operations. But VOP, which was initially founded in 2015 out of concern for the veteran suicide rate but morphed into an outfit for far-right vigilantism, operates differently than Arizona Border Recon. According to the Southern Poverty Law Center, VOP has “incorporated QAnon conspiracy theories into their activities as well … under the exaggerated premise that they are rescuing children from satanic pedophiles.” (Veterans on Patrol also recently made headlines for making threats toward the US military, who they believe was responsible for manufacturing October’s Hurricane Milton).

Meyer told WIRED that he found God after spending time in juvenile detention facilities (and extended periods of solitary confinement) for a litany of violent crimes. He believes his group’s border activities are sanctioned by God, and he doesn’t have to answer to federal law.

[...]

He and other members of VOP decide which migrants are “good” and and who are “bad,” claiming that they help the former, including women and children, while turning over the latter to federal agents.

Meyer doesn’t care if his activities interfere with Trump’s plans. “Who gives Trump authority to decide who is good or bad?” Meyer told WIRED. “We have the authority, because our authority comes from our most high God.”

Hey, if a bunch of militia members want to volunteer to guard our border, go for it. So long as they realize they have no legal standing and are not law enforcement, that's great. They have talked all the talk, let them walk the walk.

That is the part that gets hairy.
They are CHOMPING AT THE BIT to shoot someone.

And yes, with implied immunity, they will commit crimes that we don't even want to consider.

Once again, ask me about 1990s Northern Idaho.

[JKLivin]

This is fine, it seems fine.

(It will not be fine.)

Border Militias Prepare to Assist With Donald Trump’s Mass Deportation Plans

Militias that patrol the US border with Mexico are thrilled that Donald Trump has been elected—and plan to be a “valuable resource” to the incoming administration, whether or not they’re asked.

https://www.wired.com/story/border-mili ... nts-trump/

Hey, if a bunch of militia members want to volunteer to guard our border, go for it. So long as they realize they have no legal standing and are not law enforcement, that's great. They have talked all the talk, let them walk the walk.

That is the part that gets hairy.
They are CHOMPING AT THE BIT to shoot someone.

And yes, with implied immunity, they will commit crimes that we don't even want to consider.

Once again, ask me about 1990s Northern Idaho.

I can’t imagine why they’d be mad enough to do that. Other than their own government demonstrating that it cares more about people from other countries than their own tax paying citizens.

[KUTradition]

Hey, if a bunch of militia members want to volunteer to guard our border, go for it. So long as they realize they have no legal standing and are not law enforcement, that's great. They have talked all the talk, let them walk the walk.

That is the part that gets hairy.
They are CHOMPING AT THE BIT to shoot someone.

And yes, with implied immunity, they will commit crimes that we don't even want to consider.

Once again, ask me about 1990s Northern Idaho.

I can’t imagine why they’d be mad enough to do that. Other than their own government demonstrating that it cares more about people from other countries than their own tax paying citizens.

drama queen

[twocoach]

Hey, if a bunch of militia members want to volunteer to guard our border, go for it. So long as they realize they have no legal standing and are not law enforcement, that's great. They have talked all the talk, let them walk the walk.

That is the part that gets hairy.
They are CHOMPING AT THE BIT to shoot someone.

And yes, with implied immunity, they will commit crimes that we don't even want to consider.

Once again, ask me about 1990s Northern Idaho.

I can’t imagine why they’d be mad enough to do that. Other than their own government demonstrating that it cares more about people from other countries than their own tax paying citizens.

A lack of imagination to go along with a lack of critical reading skills.

I can imagine all sorts of scenarios where faux alpha male MAGA gun lovers would be interested in this activity and very few of them require them to be even remotely mad.

[JKLivin]

That is the part that gets hairy.
They are CHOMPING AT THE BIT to shoot someone.

And yes, with implied immunity, they will commit crimes that we don't even want to consider.

Once again, ask me about 1990s Northern Idaho.

I can’t imagine why they’d be mad enough to do that. Other than their own government demonstrating that it cares more about people from other countries than their own tax paying citizens.

A lack of imagination to go along with a lack of critical reading skills.

I can imagine all sorts of scenarios where faux alpha male MAGA gun lovers would be interested in this activity and very few of them require them to be even remotely mad.

Work on your sarcasm recognition skills. There would absolutely be shootings galore. Of course, there’s also an easy remedy for illegals who don’t want shot: GTFO.

[jfish26]

That is the part that gets hairy.
They are CHOMPING AT THE BIT to shoot someone.

And yes, with implied immunity, they will commit crimes that we don't even want to consider.

Once again, ask me about 1990s Northern Idaho.

I can’t imagine why they’d be mad enough to do that. Other than their own government demonstrating that it cares more about people from other countries than their own tax paying citizens.

A lack of imagination to go along with a lack of critical reading skills.

I can imagine all sorts of scenarios where faux alpha male MAGA gun lovers would be interested in this activity and very few of them require them to be even remotely mad.

Imagine Kyle Rittenhouse, but knowing he will suffer no consequences.

[KUTradition]

I can’t imagine why they’d be mad enough to do that. Other than their own government demonstrating that it cares more about people from other countries than their own tax paying citizens.

A lack of imagination to go along with a lack of critical reading skills.

I can imagine all sorts of scenarios where faux alpha male MAGA gun lovers would be interested in this activity and very few of them require them to be even remotely mad.

Imagine Kyle Rittenhouse, but knowing he will suffer no consequences.

that’s the first person that came to mind