Kansas Crimson

pdub wrote: ↑Wed Oct 23, 2024 8:33 am

randylahey wrote: ↑Wed Oct 23, 2024 8:28 am Pass first pgs are a dying breed.

Hi, my name is Braden Smith and I just led my team to the National Championship, and i'm a pass first point guard.

( yes, I am a pass first point guard, please don't bring up butbutbut 12 PPG as your rebuttal )

if Dajuan can average 12ppg this year, we fans should all be delighted.

I'd be delighted with 10 PPG and 7 APG with a FG% above 45.

DeletedUser wrote: ↑Wed Oct 23, 2024 8:32 am

KUTradition wrote: ↑Wed Oct 23, 2024 8:29 am i couldn’t care less how many nba prospects are on this team (or any other KU team)

teams full of such talent have flamed out (both during the season and in the first couple weekends of the tourney)

Exactly. This isn't the early 2000s.

How many guys from UConn the last 2 years are starting or rotation players in the NBA this year? None that come to mind.

sure, teams full of such talent have flamed out both during the season and int he first couple weekends of the tourney. (for that matter, far more teams WITHOUT such talent have flamed out yet, but that's not what we're getting at here)

but, NBA talent on a college roster is still one of the best metrics for whether a team can win it all. (and not even necessarily "starting or rotation" NBA players)

UConn had 2 lotto picks last year, and two more drafted 2nd round.

The year before that, they had 2 more guys drafted yet, plus a guy who signed a 2-way deal.

Self has never even been to a final four without starting at least 3 future NBA players.

There's a very strong correlation here.

pdub wrote: ↑Wed Oct 23, 2024 9:02 am I'd be delighted with 10 PPG and 7 APG with a FG% above 45.

He shouldn't "need" to average 12pts per game this year. Or at least the 2pt difference between 10 and 12 shouldn't be impactful to our season goals as a whole.

Unless Ousdahl is expecting us to score 120ish pts per game?

HD 18ish (averaged 18 last year)
Storr 16ish (averaged 17 last year)
Kj 14ish (averaged 13 last year)
Griffen 12ish (averaged 11 last year)
Mayo 12ish (averaged 19 last year)
DH 10ish (averaged 9 last year)

That's 82 pts per game right there from just the top 6.

If some combo of Clemence Bidunga and the rest of the bench can combine for even 10pts per game we'd be one of the highest scoring teams in the country.

DeletedUser wrote: ↑Wed Oct 23, 2024 8:30 am

BiggDick wrote: ↑Wed Oct 23, 2024 7:49 am
It's that I just think he doesn't play aggressive enough, in a comprehensive sense.

Nice and vague. Care to elaborate?

Also, 40 times in double figures in 140 games. That's 29% of the time he is scoring 10pts.

That's pretty good.

Play more aggressive generally.

He doesn't have to be aggressive just narrowly in a scoring sense. BUT, if and when the opportunity presents itself to score, go up aggressive with it, rather than go up acting like he'd rather pass until he realizes he's already on the way back down and has to do something either way.

If and when a wide open layup opportunity comes, go aggressively take that shot at a wide open layup.

If he gets any angle on the D, just aggressively drive and see what becomes of it - whether it's a shot opportunity for himself, or - gasp! - the opportunity to pass first, cuz the D had to adjust, which creates the opportunity for open teammates to pass to, cuz the pg actually did something aggressive.

even his brain fart turnovers and other freshmanesque moments would be easier to live with if he's committing them aggressively, rather than hesitantly. If he's gotta inexplicably just toss it to the other team, at least aggressively inexplicably toss it, rather than inexplicably toss it cuz it was like he couldn't decide what else to do.

and, while his defense is generally a good thing, he might as well turn up the aggressiveness on D while were at it too.

DeletedUser wrote: ↑Wed Oct 23, 2024 9:12 am

pdub wrote: ↑Wed Oct 23, 2024 9:02 am I'd be delighted with 10 PPG and 7 APG with a FG% above 45.

He shouldn't "need" to average 12pts per game this year. Or at least the 2pt difference between 10 and 12 shouldn't be impactful to our season goals as a whole.

Unless Ousdahl is expecting us to score 120ish pts per game?

HD 18ish (averaged 18 last year)
Storr 16ish (averaged 17 last year)
Kj 14ish (averaged 13 last year)
Griffen 12ish (averaged 11 last year)
Mayo 12ish (averaged 19 last year)
DH 10ish (averaged 9 last year)

That's 82 pts per game right there from just the top 6.

If some combo of Clemence Bidunga and the rest of the bench can combine for even 10pts per game we'd be one of the highest scoring teams in the country.

cue the cautious optimism here.

Why NOT expect our 6th year super duper senior guard to average more?

If historical trends hold, I think the upperclassman program guy is far more likely to take a statistical jump, than transfers are to come anywhere close to their numbers at their previous school.

and it's funny, cuz I initially had (please don't bring up butbutbut Dajuan won't need to average 12ppg as a rebuttal) in my initial response to dub's quote

pdub wrote: ↑Wed Oct 23, 2024 8:26 am The season hasn't even started and i'm already sick of Mike Vernon.

"SUBSCRIBE NOW FOR MY SECRET INSIDE HEARINGS"
Ugh.

yea.

look on the bright side tho.

this is prob the most action the hoops board has seen this entire offseason!

BiggDick wrote: ↑Wed Oct 23, 2024 9:04 am
Self has never even been to a final four without starting at least 3 future NBA players.

There's a very strong correlation here.

I remember when you said how fucked we were because Dajuan Harris and Christian Braun were low ceiling. And it was an entire additional year before JW was good enough to make the jump to the NBA....

All we did was win it all that year and CB has turned out to be the best pro player of that group.


Griffin, Storr, Mayo, Bidunga, and possibly even Passmore (a few years down the line) have decent chances to get shots in the NBA like Och CB and JW have. So we have at minimum close to the amount of NBA talent that the national title team had.


I'm sure glad you're not polluting the politics board since your return, but i am not sure trying to dominate this forum 24/7 is a great trade off for us.

BiggDick wrote: ↑Wed Oct 23, 2024 9:17 am

Why NOT expect our 6th year super duper senior guard to average more?

Because we don't need him to.

Because there are 5 or 6 more skilled scorers on our team and he makes it EASIER for them to score because of his passing ability.

Because his shots should actually go down (if we stay healthy, remember he played numerous games without KM last year).

Because 2 or 3 pts are 2 or 3 pts for Kansas regardless of who on our team scores the basketball.

BiggDick wrote: ↑Wed Oct 23, 2024 9:17 am

If historical trends hold, I think the upperclassman program guy is far more likely to take a statistical jump, than transfers are to come anywhere close to their numbers at their previous school.

HD just showed last fucking year that transfers can come close to their numbers at their previous school. He averaged almost identical points and blocks. Increased his rebounds and assists, and decreased his turnovers. Nearly identical eFG% and nearly identical usage%.

Take a break, you suck at this.

I actually agree that Dajuan can and should be more aggressive.
Not on every play of course but overall, on offense, yes.

ok, lemme change my criticism.

maybe my gripe with Juan is less that he should be generally more aggressive, and more that he, and the entire program and fanbase, seem OK with this "we don't need him to be better" sort of weak sauce.

I just don't like the complacency.

We're an elite program. Maybe even THEE elite program. I expect eliteness - PARTICULARLY around our retained program guys we effectively build the entire roster around for several years in a row, and end up giving tons of minutes.

and for an elite program to end up giving such a huge role to such a "we don't need him to be better" sort of player, is not a good plan as far as roster building goes.

But - I don't think that was the plan. Rather, I think Dajuan is still the archetypal career backup who's just there when the other options fall through; the Landen Lucas of guards. It's just more obvious cuz basketball is such a guard's game.

DeletedUser wrote: ↑Wed Oct 23, 2024 9:37 am

BiggDick wrote: ↑Wed Oct 23, 2024 9:17 am

If historical trends hold, I think the upperclassman program guy is far more likely to take a statistical jump, than transfers are to come anywhere close to their numbers at their previous school.

HD just showed last fucking year that transfers can come close to their numbers at their previous school. He averaged almost identical points and blocks. Increased his rebounds and assists, and decreased his turnovers. Nearly identical eFG% and nearly identical usage%.

Take a break, you suck at this.

okay, yea, Hunter is an outlier.

He prob played a bigger role than expected last year too, once the rest of the roster kinda fell apart.

Speaking of the rest of the roster, McCullar is another outlier too.

But for every Hunter and McCullar, there's a lot more Nick Timberlakes and Parker Brauns and Cam Martins and Remy Martins and JCLs and Isaiah Moss's and Yesufus and Charlie Moores and...yea

but that's not to say this latest crop of transfers won't, or can't! I hope they do!

You're just making things up as you go now...

I haven't heard a single person say DH shouldn't get better. I just don't think it's at the things you continually focus on so that you can be negative and get attention.

And you can't compare this era (transfer portal/immediate eligibility) of basketball to eras of the past in my opinion.

There is SIGNIFICANT value in guys like DH and KJ (and to a lesser extent this year HD) being familiar with the system we run because it makes it EASIER on the plug and play guys like Storr Mayo and Griffen.

Having an experienced PG that understands ball movement and offensive sets is a huge asset to a Bill Self offense. It doesn't work without it. DH makes the game easier for the offensive players around him. Just as our NBA wings (Och CB and JW) have all said.


He's not the Landen Lucas of guards. He's the all time career assist leader in KU history.

BiggDick wrote: ↑Wed Oct 23, 2024 9:47 am

DeletedUser wrote: ↑Wed Oct 23, 2024 9:37 am

BiggDick wrote: ↑Wed Oct 23, 2024 9:17 am

If historical trends hold, I think the upperclassman program guy is far more likely to take a statistical jump, than transfers are to come anywhere close to their numbers at their previous school.

HD just showed last fucking year that transfers can come close to their numbers at their previous school. He averaged almost identical points and blocks. Increased his rebounds and assists, and decreased his turnovers. Nearly identical eFG% and nearly identical usage%.

Take a break, you suck at this.

okay, yea, Hunter is an outlier.

He prob played a bigger role than expected last year too, once the rest of the roster kinda fell apart.

Speaking of the rest of the roster, McCullar is another outlier too.

But for every Hunter and McCullar, there's a lot more Nick Timberlakes and Parker Brauns and Cam Martins and Remy Martins and JCLs and Isaiah Moss's and Yesufus and Charlie Moores and...yea

but that's not to say this latest crop of transfers won't, or can't! I hope they do!

Hunter Dickinson is not comparable to Parker Braun or Nick Timberlake. They were brought here for completely different reasons than HD. HD was a preseason AA last year. He did EXACTLY what he was expected to do.

KM and HD aren't outliers. They are examples of how well we can recruit in the transfer portal era. They were brought here to play BIG roles, and they did.

Self is basically 2 for 3 in the transfer portal era. Remy didn't live up to the hype (didn't understand the offense or how to make others around him better). But HD and KM absolutely lived up to the hype.

Storr is next on that list of big time transfers.

He's Landen Lucas in the sense he's a long-term program guy who is not a high-profile talent with star potential, but ended up in a bigger role than expected year after year.

in 2022 it was kinda surprising, or at least a little unexpected, that Dajuan got the starting spot (which may, as much as anything, have been due to Jalen getting in trouble, then Remy's injury/doghouse debacle)

in 2023 He played a ton of minutes in large part cuz guys like Yes and Pettiford didn't develop like at all.

In 2024 he played a ton of minutes in large part cuz our high-profile freshman guard ended up looking a little too fresh, and cuz our other high-profile guard outta the transfer portal, uh, didn't work out.

This year, I honestly think Self had Elmarko penciled in for a big role, which would have come both next to Dajuan and also as a sub for Dajuan, until his knee exploded. That's why we brought in Shak literally the next day, and Diggy in the middle of August.

2022 is the only year where he played a bigger role than expected. We all expected Remy to take over, but he wasn't capable of being anything other than a scoring punch off the bench. Because you need your PG to run offense, and not just chuck shots. PGs have to make the players around them better, it's in the job description.

We've known EXACTLY what DHs role would be the last several years. Only hater ass fans expected a guy like Yesufu (now at WVU) or Pettiford (now at some small school) to replace DH. There is a reason those guys aren't starting at Duke or UNC.

Withey's one of our better success stories as far as transfers go.

Malik too.

The Lawsons were kind of a split - Dedric at least brought the stats, but KJ's kinda fell hard.