Kansas Crimson

twocoach wrote: ↑Tue Aug 16, 2022 11:09 am

Our governmental officials should not be swayed from a state visit to another region because some other nation tells us not to go there.

I personally am not a fan of foreign policy rooted in arrogance, but let's put that shoe on the other foot:

by that logic, if we told some other nation not to visit another region, should they be swayed from a state visit there? Or are other nations too allowed to tell us we can go fuck off, and do so anyway?

There's just strong "do as I say not as I do" vibes here.

China can go fuck off and get their own house in order.

yea.

as if Merica is some model of keeping our own house in order.

maybe you should look into whether or not Taiwan wanted and approved of the visits

ousdahl wrote: ↑Tue Aug 16, 2022 11:27 am

twocoach wrote: ↑Tue Aug 16, 2022 11:09 am

Our governmental officials should not be swayed from a state visit to another region because some other nation tells us not to go there.

I personally am not a fan of foreign policy rooted in arrogance, but let's put that shoe on the other foot:

by that logic, if we told some other nation not to visit another region, should they be swayed from a state visit there? Or are other nations too allowed to tell us we can go fuck off, and do so anyway?

There's just strong "do as I say not as I do" vibes here.

China can go fuck off and get their own house in order.

yea.

as if Merica is some model of keeping our own house in order.

It's only "do as I say not as I do" if your hypothetical example actually happened. If the US told China to not send diplomats to some other country then I would have a problem with that the statement from the US as I don't feel that is appropriate in most scenarios.

and puerto rico is a polar opposite example for the reason i already noted - they are trying to become more a part of the US (vying for statehood), not less

ok, I suppose that's a good distinction.

so maybe the question is, why isn't Merica focusing more on making Puerto Rico a state, or otherwise working to improve the lives of peoples there, rather than sending leadership and resources to do whatever it is we're doing in Taiwan instead?

KUTradition wrote: ↑Tue Aug 16, 2022 11:33 am maybe you should look into whether or not Taiwan wanted and approved of the visits

so how long til we get the #StandWithTaiwan hashtags too?

ousdahl wrote: ↑Tue Aug 16, 2022 11:43 am ok, I suppose that's a good distinction.

so maybe the question is, why isn't Merica focusing more on making Puerto Rico a state, or otherwise working to improve the lives of peoples there, rather than sending leadership and resources to do whatever it is we're doing in Taiwan instead?

i don’t know

write your elected representatives and ask them. the citizens voted for statehood, but congress said no

twocoach wrote: ↑Tue Aug 16, 2022 11:34 am

ousdahl wrote: ↑Tue Aug 16, 2022 11:27 am

twocoach wrote: ↑Tue Aug 16, 2022 11:09 am

Our governmental officials should not be swayed from a state visit to another region because some other nation tells us not to go there.

I personally am not a fan of foreign policy rooted in arrogance, but let's put that shoe on the other foot:

by that logic, if we told some other nation not to visit another region, should they be swayed from a state visit there? Or are other nations too allowed to tell us we can go fuck off, and do so anyway?

There's just strong "do as I say not as I do" vibes here.

China can go fuck off and get their own house in order.

yea.

as if Merica is some model of keeping our own house in order.

It's only "do as I say not as I do" if your hypothetical example actually happened. If the US told China to not send diplomats to some other country then I would have a problem with that the statement from the US as I don't feel that is appropriate in most scenarios.

yea, thank the lord it IS only a hypothetical!

KUTradition wrote: ↑Tue Aug 16, 2022 11:45 am

ousdahl wrote: ↑Tue Aug 16, 2022 11:43 am ok, I suppose that's a good distinction.

so maybe the question is, why isn't Merica focusing more on making Puerto Rico a state, or otherwise working to improve the lives of peoples there, rather than sending leadership and resources to do whatever it is we're doing in Taiwan instead?

i don’t know

write your elected representatives and ask them. the citizens voted for statehood, but congress said no

so much for freedom and independence.

actually, it seems the biggest reason why congress hasn’t allowed statehood is because it would shift the balance of power…senate seats, house seats and electoral college votes

ousdahl wrote: ↑Tue Aug 16, 2022 11:46 am

KUTradition wrote: ↑Tue Aug 16, 2022 11:45 am

ousdahl wrote: ↑Tue Aug 16, 2022 11:43 am ok, I suppose that's a good distinction.

so maybe the question is, why isn't Merica focusing more on making Puerto Rico a state, or otherwise working to improve the lives of peoples there, rather than sending leadership and resources to do whatever it is we're doing in Taiwan instead?

i don’t know

write your elected representatives and ask them. the citizens voted for statehood, but congress said no

so much for freedom and independence.

wut?

they don’t want that

they literally want to be a more engrained part of the US (as measured by popular vote)

yea, that's a funny way to put that.

in a big sense, Puerto Rico hasn't enjoyed freedom nor independence of their own in like 500 years. It's been a long time since they've been any sort of autonomous territory, rather than some imperial colony.

I'll go out on a limb and say if there WAS any kind of moment in Puerto Rico for which they tried to declare their own autonomy, no way in hell they'd have the freedom nor independence to to so.

And perhaps it's some goofy paradox that they don't have the freedom nor independence to be granted statehood by their imperial overlords, the will of the people be damned.

yeah, you’re right…i’m sure they’re all about being their own independent country

i mean, they’ve got so much political stability, internal prosperity, and means for operating in a global free market with all of their resources and exports

i don’t know what the hell i'm thinking

I detect sarcasm.

and I dunno if it's your intent, but your post can be read as an argument for independence.

i’m not arguing one way or another

i’m not Puerto Rican

KUTradition wrote: ↑Tue Aug 16, 2022 11:50 am actually, it seems the biggest reason why congress hasn’t allowed statehood is because it would shift the balance of power…senate seats, house seats and electoral college votes

Exactly. Same as DC

trying to circle back to some initial discussion - if Puerto Rico really struggles with political stability and internal prosperity and operating in a global market, then why don't we focus our resources on that, rather than pimping freedom and independence in Taiwan instead?

and for that matter, in Ukraine instead?

I just think there's so much shit the US could be accomplishing, beyond arms brokering and antagonism disguised as diplomacy.

ousdahl wrote: ↑Tue Aug 16, 2022 12:37 pm trying to circle back to some initial discussion - if Puerto Rico really struggles with political stability and internal prosperity and operating in a global market, then why don't we focus our resources on that, rather than pimping freedom and independence in Taiwan instead?

and for that matter, in Ukraine instead?

I just think there's so much shit the US could be accomplishing, beyond arms brokering and antagonism disguised as diplomacy.

Republicans

Adding Puerto Rico and DC as States would ensure and cement the irrelevance of the Republican Party. It would just accelerate something that is all but certain over the next decade - ie. we don’t have to wait until enough old, rural, white people die off. That’s the simple reason why we don’t have two more States.

Cascadia wrote: ↑Tue Aug 16, 2022 12:53 pm

ousdahl wrote: ↑Tue Aug 16, 2022 12:37 pm trying to circle back to some initial discussion - if Puerto Rico really struggles with political stability and internal prosperity and operating in a global market, then why don't we focus our resources on that, rather than pimping freedom and independence in Taiwan instead?

and for that matter, in Ukraine instead?

I just think there's so much shit the US could be accomplishing, beyond arms brokering and antagonism disguised as diplomacy.

Republicans

well then, what are Dems doing to improve the lives of the Merican people?

or to keep tabs on the war machine?