Kansas Crimson

ousdahl wrote: ↑Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:10 am I think we've been over this, but - what about the constitutional issue? That is, what about the fact a drug test constitutes an unreasonable search of a person? It's effectively treating welfare recipients like criminals.

And what constitutes "welfare," anyway? Do you test only the folks on food stamps? What about rich folks with their tax breaks -- you think Japhy is gonna be cool with pissing in a cup as a prerequisite to his servicing? You think those types aren't even more stoned than the poor folks?

Heck, if you really wanna crack down on welfare queens, how about corporate handouts? Should we start drug testing business executives and boards of directors?

Or how about foreign aid? Should we start withholding that much unless the leadership of other countries submits to urine analysis?

and, as has been mentioned, what to make of the fact that drug tests are often unnecessarily expensive and not cost-effective?

TraditionKU wrote: ↑Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:32 am piss tests can easily be be passed with fake urine (unless you’re actually being watched)

we gonna pay out the ass for hair tests?

TraditionKU wrote: ↑Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:28 am reducing social services like welfare is just plain dumb

what should happen is those in need of such assistance should be helped so that they get to the point where the service/s isn’t needed anymore

reduce the demand...don’t cut the supply

ousdahl wrote: ↑Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:34 am

TraditionKU wrote: ↑Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:28 am reducing social services like welfare is just plain dumb

what should happen is those in need of such assistance should be helped so that they get to the point where the service/s isn’t needed anymore

reduce the demand...don’t cut the supply

I'm also curious whether there's a correlation between reducing the demand for welfare, and a living wage.

TDub wrote: ↑Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:33 am

TraditionKU wrote: ↑Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:32 am piss tests can easily be be passed with fake urine (unless you’re actually being watched)

we gonna pay out the ass for hair tests?

So we shouldnt try? Just give money to anyone who wants it? Vote bernie then. I won't.

TDub wrote: ↑Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:33 am

ousdahl wrote: ↑Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:10 am I think we've been over this, but - what about the constitutional issue? That is, what about the fact a drug test constitutes an unreasonable search of a person? It's effectively treating welfare recipients like criminals.

And what constitutes "welfare," anyway? Do you test only the folks on food stamps? What about rich folks with their tax breaks -- you think Japhy is gonna be cool with pissing in a cup as a prerequisite to his servicing? You think those types aren't even more stoned than the poor folks?

Heck, if you really wanna crack down on welfare queens, how about corporate handouts? Should we start drug testing business executives and boards of directors?

Or how about foreign aid? Should we start withholding that much unless the leadership of other countries submits to urine analysis?

and, as has been mentioned, what to make of the fact that drug tests are often unnecessarily expensive and not cost-effective?

Does the constitution require that the governemnt provide aid? If it doesnt than the aid is subject to whatever the requirements put upon that aid are and any constitutional rights regarding search and seizure are forfeited when accepting said aid. They arent coming to search you if you arent requesting aid.

TraditionKU wrote: ↑Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:32 am piss tests can easily be be passed with fake urine (unless you’re actually being watched)

we gonna pay out the ass for hair tests?

TraditionKU wrote: ↑Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:37 am

TDub wrote: ↑Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:33 am

TraditionKU wrote: ↑Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:32 am piss tests can easily be be passed with fake urine (unless you’re actually being watched)

we gonna pay out the ass for hair tests?

So we shouldnt try? Just give money to anyone who wants it? Vote bernie then. I won't.

never said that

you want to continue to throw money at a failed system?

ousdahl wrote: ↑Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:38 am

TDub wrote: ↑Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:33 am

ousdahl wrote: ↑Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:10 am I think we've been over this, but - what about the constitutional issue? That is, what about the fact a drug test constitutes an unreasonable search of a person? It's effectively treating welfare recipients like criminals.

And what constitutes "welfare," anyway? Do you test only the folks on food stamps? What about rich folks with their tax breaks -- you think Japhy is gonna be cool with pissing in a cup as a prerequisite to his servicing? You think those types aren't even more stoned than the poor folks?

Heck, if you really wanna crack down on welfare queens, how about corporate handouts? Should we start drug testing business executives and boards of directors?

Or how about foreign aid? Should we start withholding that much unless the leadership of other countries submits to urine analysis?

and, as has been mentioned, what to make of the fact that drug tests are often unnecessarily expensive and not cost-effective?

Does the constitution require that the governemnt provide aid? If it doesnt than the aid is subject to whatever the requirements put upon that aid are and any constitutional rights regarding search and seizure are forfeited when accepting said aid. They arent coming to search you if you arent requesting aid.

I'm not sure I can answer your constitutional question.

Where should the line be drawn, then, about what sort of gummint aid requires a drug test?

would you be cool with being drug tested to, say, get a driver's license and use public roads? Or what if your house is on fire so you call 911 and they respond with, "we'll send the fire department but only if you prove there's not weed in your system first?"

It just seems like an unnecessarily criminal investigation for non-criminal behavior.

TDub wrote: ↑Mon Jan 20, 2020 10:39 am

seahawk wrote: ↑Mon Jan 20, 2020 9:19 am

TDub wrote: ↑Mon Jan 20, 2020 8:11 am Welfare reduction, and incuding mandatory drug testing for recipients seems like a good idea. It also seems like the opposite directions most democrats are heading. Havent seen this idea promoted by anyone. Had it been?

Why exactly would you want drug testing of welfare recipients?

Because i am all for my tax dosrs going to someone truly in need. I do not want my tax dollars going to support a habit. And yes i know not all welfsre recipients are drug users, i never said that they were. Some are, i know of some that are. I dont think that staying clean is too stringent of a requirement for recieving state provided income.

ousdahl wrote: ↑Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:10 am I think we've been over this, but - what about the constitutional issue? That is, what about the fact a drug test constitutes an unreasonable search of a person? It's effectively treating welfare recipients like criminals.

And what constitutes "welfare," anyway? Do you test only the folks on food stamps? What about rich folks with their tax breaks -- you think Japhy is gonna be cool with pissing in a cup as a prerequisite to his servicing? You think those types aren't even more stoned than the poor folks?

Heck, if you really wanna crack down on welfare queens, how about corporate handouts? Should we start drug testing business executives and boards of directors?

Or how about foreign aid? Should we start withholding that much unless the leadership of other countries submits to urine analysis?

and, as has been mentioned, what to make of the fact that drug tests are often unnecessarily expensive and not cost-effective?

DCHawk1 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 19, 2020 11:18 pm Biden-Sinema.

Book it.

Mjl wrote: ↑Sun Jan 19, 2020 11:34 pm

DCHawk1 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 19, 2020 11:18 pm Biden-Sinema.

Book it.

Seems like the same mistake that Democrats regularly make.

TDub wrote: ↑Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:33 am

TraditionKU wrote: ↑Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:32 am piss tests can easily be be passed with fake urine (unless you’re actually being watched)

we gonna pay out the ass for hair tests?

So we shouldnt try? Just give money to anyone who wants it? Vote bernie then. I won't.

TDub wrote: ↑Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:50 am Id be surprised if they werent drug tested. Federal employment generally requires a pre employment drug test.

TDub wrote: ↑Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:47 am Most jobs, career type jobs, require a pre employment drug test. If a company wont trust you enough to hire you why should the government trust you with our tax payer dollars?

I cant believe there is this much support for supplying drug users with welfare money.