Kansas Crimson

Yeah, was meaning to mention fouls. Cam/Mitch fouls just don't matter like Jalen's do.

I think fouls are a good point and the potential for Jalen to play at the 5 is completely eliminated if he's already in foul trouble but I also think: 1) if you play 5 guards late it is easier to rotate and recover on double teams, which Self loves to do and 2) I'd need to do more research on our opponents but my strong suspicion is we won't run into many teams with really good back to the basket scorers at the 5.

You don't need to be a really good back to the basket 5 to abuse Jalen. Landen Lucas would have destroyed Jalen and he was average. It just isn't logical to take our 2nd or 3rd best player and play him completely out of position just because it sounds cool or would be fun in a video game. He was close to awful as our 5 man last year...he was fantastic as our stretch 4.

pdub wrote: ↑Thu Sep 30, 2021 1:58 pm I think Mitch is a better interior defender than Jalen.
I also think it's alright if he picks up fouls -- i'd prefer Jalen on the court when we need him ( and when DMac is playing ).
And don't discount his 6 years playing for Bill Self.

Yeah Mitch I’d a better interior defender than Jalen, but not by a yuge margin. So the question becomes, whether his advantage as an interior defender is enough to offset the advantages that Jalen brings.

Yea it’s nice to have bodies for fouls, but playing a dood just in case the guy you’d rather have out there gets fouls instead seems silly.

But yeah, maybe we got some 6th year senior mojo in the works. That’d be rad

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Thu Sep 30, 2021 2:07 pm You don't need to be a really good back to the basket 5 to abuse Jalen. Landen Lucas would have destroyed Jalen and he was average. It just isn't logical to take our 2nd or 3rd best player and play him completely out of position just because it sounds cool or would be fun in a video game. He was close to awful as our 5 man last year...he was fantastic as our stretch 4.

You want Cam Martin to play.

I want Cam Martin to play!

I don’t think Self woulda brought in a 1 year transfer just to be a play-hard-chart practice player when he otherwise had Mitch for that all along.

This entire conversation has left me less optimistic about this season. If I'm wrong and these two geeks are correct, then we will have multiple games where Mitch Lightfoot and Cam Martin are playing meaningful minutes. My god we're going to get railed in March again.

ousdahl wrote: ↑Thu Sep 30, 2021 2:11 pm I want Cam Martin to play!

I don’t think Self woulda brought in a 1 year transfer just to be a play-hard-chart practice player when he otherwise had Mitch for that all along.

Self had more than 1 iron in the backup big fire. Cam was coming scholly or no scholly.

The other irons fell through.

Weaknesses last year were guard play and frontcourt depth.

We made a lot more of a splash addressing the former than the latter.

2 of the hottest names in the transfer portal plus 2 promising freshman to develop in the problem, vs. a 1 year D2 transfer.

I really really hope Cam is more than just a guy to take a flier on.

I always forget how small Mitch is until conference play starts.

When it comes down to it, Dave is just going to play a ton of minutes in the must-win games.

hasbeen wrote: ↑Thu Sep 30, 2021 2:09 pm

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Thu Sep 30, 2021 2:07 pm You don't need to be a really good back to the basket 5 to abuse Jalen. Landen Lucas would have destroyed Jalen and he was average. It just isn't logical to take our 2nd or 3rd best player and play him completely out of position just because it sounds cool or would be fun in a video game. He was close to awful as our 5 man last year...he was fantastic as our stretch 4.

You want Cam Martin to play.

I think I'd prefer Cam over Mitch, but that's just based on the infatuation with the unknown that we are guilty of every offseason.

hasbeen wrote: ↑Thu Sep 30, 2021 2:11 pm This entire conversation has left me less optimistic about this season. If I'm wrong and these two geeks are correct, then we will have multiple games where Mitch Lightfoot and Cam Martin are playing meaningful minutes. My god we're going to get railed in March again.

It'll hopefully be 15min max. Dave should be able to play 25min+.

I think we're looking at 28 mpg for Dave.
My bet is that Mitch would get more of the other 12 -- but I think it's possible we still see Cam, Jalen or one of the two frosh recruited as bigs ( both ranked higher than Mitch ever was ).

I'd feel better about Mitch or Cam or Jalen at the 5 if I had more confidence in Dave. I think the conversation about the backup is more important than some have indicated. I watched Dave last season and understand that some think he's better than I do, but I can't fathom anyone having a lot of confidence in him staying on the court for a long time and being effective. He just has not shown that as a player to this point.

Fortunately, I think 1-4 we border on an elite collection of college talent. I'll be surprised if Dave plays more than 26 a game which means some combination of Mitch, Cam, Jalen, freshman will fill at least 10 minutes at the 5 -- are the rest of the players good enough to overcome it?

I’ve said this before, but I think Dave would serve this squad better in some rich man’s Landen Lucas role, rather than the poor man’s Dirk that he wants to be.

And yeah, he’s not the most confidence-inspiring guy. Dude’s prone to spazzing out.

But if his role is more defense/rebounds/positioning then that role easier to keep a cool head about than thinking the entire offense has to go through him.

pdub wrote: ↑Thu Sep 30, 2021 2:22 pm I think we're looking at 28 mpg for Dave.
My bet is that Mitch would get more of the other 12 -- but I think it's possible we still see Cam, Jalen or one of the two frosh recruited as bigs ( both ranked higher than Mitch ever was ).

I also think it's possible we see minutes with Mitch/Cam playing with Dave. Or maybe Clemence? Not sure which of the freshman bigs are the best at this point?

Lol

Most of the bored: “we might go teeny even if it’s by necessity”

Illy: “lemme throw down the 2 big idea, even if it’s some freshman”

hasbeen wrote: ↑Thu Sep 30, 2021 2:30 pm Fortunately, I think 1-4 we border on an elite collection of college talent.

Ya. It's a weird group. Feels like an elite college team, but maybe not a single long term NBA rotation player. Which is sort of unusual.

He ( DMac ) was averaging 24 a game in B12 play.
I think he can get up to 27-28.
And he was our most effective player per minute last season.

ousdahl wrote: ↑Thu Sep 30, 2021 2:37 pm Lol

Most of the bored: “we might go teeny even if it’s by necessity”

Illy: “lemme throw down the 2 big idea, even if it’s some freshman”

You're nuts if you don't think Self will ever play 2 bigs together again.

Clemence will be an ideal stretch 4. Just maybe (probably) not this year.