Kansas Crimson

ousdahl wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 9:06 am I'd personally prefer we be very cautious about any form of ethno-fascism rather than come up with reasons to downplay it, but yea, maybe there's something lost in translation or something.

ousdahl wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 9:21 am could you share what you found?

Cuz I google searched it too, including searching for a Ukrainian language copy through the google translator back to English.

I haven't found any real insight or analysis into that particular article or its language, at least on the googler, but maybe I missed something.

cuz, perhaps it IS more complicated or nuanced than that. Bear in mind, even in the west, Ukraine was for years labeled as having a nazi problem (right up until the West collectively, and without any complication or nuance, declared Ukraine the "good guys," and started giving even more weapons to them than we did before)

and, forgive me if I just get nervous about a country with a known nazi problem putting shit about state duty to save their gene pool.

ousdahl wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 9:47 am one link says "to preserve the gene pool of the Ukrainian people" and the other says "preserving the gene pool of the Ukrainian people," but that's otherwise the same stuff I found, and doesn't really offer a much deeper understanding of the article.

I'm looking for insight and analysis.

Aren't there some journalists or constitutional scholars or some someones who have dissected that? Do other countries have "gene pool" language in their constitutions? Is there any linguist expert type who can explain the Ukrainian word or term for "gene pool" may actually be something lost in translation?

Cuz, yea, I am hung up on some red flag words. But I think it may have much to do with much of the stuff I'm talking about - namely, ethno-fascism, and how I'm concerned about your and my tax dollars arming as much.

ousdahl wrote: ↑Tue Sep 20, 2022 12:35 pm what do the people of the so-called Donetsk and Luhansk People’s Republics want?

as well as the people of the Kherson and Zaporizhzhia regions

KUTradition wrote: ↑Tue Sep 20, 2022 2:40 pm and yeah, i suppose we shoulda just stayed out and let putin do as he chooses

former KGB are known for their morality and ethical behavior

jfc

KUTradition wrote: ↑Tue Sep 20, 2022 2:37 pm and how can you put legal technicalities aside?

they absolutely matter and are entirely relevant

should cliven bundy and his ilk be allowed to form their own country just because they want to, with zero regard for constitutional law?

ousdahl wrote: ↑Tue Sep 20, 2022 2:53 pm and what bothers me is that, despite ample evidence that there really is a nazi problem, you're still doubling down on...what, again?

I've never once said I supported Russia's invasion, said I think they're fighting any good fight, said I think they're actually trying to de-nazify Ukraine, said that the presence of nazis in Ukraine justify's Russia's aggression, or said that the answer to this violence is more violence yet.

And I CERTAINLY have never doubled down on any of that!

Again, that's you trying to gaslight me. At this point I expect the TDub types to let some Qusdahl boogeyman live in their minds...sigh. But come on Trad, be better than that.

cuz AGAIN! I don't know how many times I have to say this!

Both of these things can be true:

- Russia's rhetoric is bullshit
- Ukraine has a nazi problem either way

so many credible western sources, including so many authorities within our own Merican gummint, expressed concern about radical extremist ethno-nationalism bullshit in Ukraine for years. I've provided ample examples of as much in this very thread. If you failed to or refuse to consider them, perhaps it's YOU who is being willfully blind.

Of course, all that concern was there up until Russia's invasion, at which point we're all supposed to shrug all that concern off in favor of oversimplified good guy bad guy narratives and an end game of little more than, weapons weapons weapons!

Yes, Ukraine has a constitution (gene pool lulz), but I think the big question we should be asking, and I've been trying to ask, is some question of actual greater understanding of Ukraine and its peoples.

It's like we AREN'T supposed to understand them too well! We're supposed to accept some view of Ukraine as one big happy homogenous country of "freedom fighters," and completely disregard the infighting that's gone on there for years, completely disregard the differences between eastern and western Ukraine, completely disregard the violence (largely based on ethnic differences...where have we heard this before?), and completely disregard that your and my own tax dollars have done little more for the place than keep enabling and escalating and provoking even more violence yet.

But Jesus fucking Christ dude, if we really aren't supposed to discuss any of this, and aren't able to discuss any of this without getting this pissed off at one another, what a shame. Maybe the bad guys have already won.

ousdahl wrote: ↑Tue Sep 20, 2022 2:55 pm

KUTradition wrote: ↑Tue Sep 20, 2022 2:40 pm and yeah, i suppose we shoulda just stayed out and let putin do as he chooses

former KGB are known for their morality and ethical behavior

jfc

Do you think Merica is a good example of morality and ethical behavior?

And I know you'll give me shit for this too, but I think there's some question of whether Putin would have ever invaded if not for us arming his belligerent neighbors first, and doubling down every time we otherwise had the chance for more diplomatic measures.