Kansas Crimson

ChalkRocker wrote: ↑Wed Mar 18, 2020 7:42 pm

DCHawk1 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 18, 2020 3:13 pm

Feral wrote: ↑Wed Mar 18, 2020 3:07 pm Hard to decide whether to put this here or on Japhy's Challenge thread.

Fucking chaps my ass that we're gonna bail out Boeing and the airlines.

Boeing especially.

AI respect the heck outta you, and your intellect, DC, but there're a lot of angles on that.

One bro works for Boeing. Of course, he's a good guy. NU and CU, tho'.

He and his cohorts have a LOT of complex views abt how that firm came to be where it is.

They work hard, pay dues (not union), and fret the bills like the rest of us.

Drop kick 'em, and who builds the the helos, tankers, etc. that we take for granted?

and, flip, yes. I get it. They fu*ked a LOT of stuff up. They get it, too. They are no shot-callers, tho'.

If all of them, and their fams, hit the UIB line, while we wrestle w/ everything else, and we kiss goodbye, likely FOREVER, an entire high, high, high-tech industry (decimated at most other levels), does that make us better when this is over? I can 't see how.

It'll be over at some point.

Thanks, CR.

Here's the thing, as I'm sure you know. Boeing is asking for $60 billion -- after using $44 billion of its $58 billion in free cash flow (75%) over the last ten years to buy back stock. In his 4-plus years as CEO, Dennis Muilenburg "earned" in the neighborhood of $50 million of that bought-back stock (which is to say in stock awards alone, not counting cash and bonus compensation). Take all executives, plus all board members and total their haul, and its almost unconscionable to allow the company to have access to taxpayer funds.

The same goes for the airlines, which, collectively, used 96% of their free cash flow over the last five years to buy back stock.

Executives and directors should be forced to put some skin in the game before taxpayers foot the bill for their irresponsibility and wealth accumulation.

I'm not sure how you do that AND protect workers. I don't want to give them the full AIG treatment, but there's some serious moral hazard that has to be addressed.

I'm sorry this affects you personally. And it's important that we're all reminded, from time to time, that there are real-life consequences and real people who are affected by all of this. But it's the irresponsibility of these people -- the Boeing executives and directors -- that has put ALL of us, especially your brother, in such a shitty position right now.

Bernanke, Yellen, and Powell turned the markets into a political utility. Obama and Trump took political advantage of that, and people like Muilenburg took economic advantage of it. And the rest of us are getting fucked for it.

This isn't solely abt any personal impact, altho' I won't deny it gives me a perspective I wouldn't otherwise claim.

Their toxic ex-CEO and his cadre of sychophant ex-senior execs are gone. Retribution demanded and needed.

Will they rescind some windfall $$? More than they have, imo. See the auto industry, w/ it's multi-fiascos.

Should there be a hereditary effect for the nationally-critical industries that begat these thieves, and their qrtrly. profit-driven, stock-option comped approach to aircraft development and (inherently) aircraft safety?

Not in my view. Punish as needed and appropriate. Cleanse the cos. and the industries. The methods for this require, MORE THAN ANYTHING, foresight, strength of character, honesty, and selflessness. These traits exist, whether we believe it or not; but we need to believe it.

The industries? These cos., like it or not, ARE the industries. Flush 'em, feel vindicated, and then live with consequences (some sadly predictable, some afterthoughts, and some complete blindsides).

Use a scalpel as required (not a maul). It's a complicated (and Historically Critical) series of choices this nation is making, on this topic and a score of others, every fu*king day.

We're just so fatigued, I think we're making some expeditious, but very bad, choices.

All, imo, sir.

Did twocoach or Feral hack DC’s account?!?! I know I didn’t! Can’t agree more. What we didn’t do in 2008-09 is coming back to haunt us now

First death in Plano.

And we had to send a service advisor home.
He lives at home, and his sister...who is a nurse at a local hospital....tested positive.

Now, we are all on edge.

zsn wrote: ↑Wed Mar 18, 2020 9:16 pm Did twocoach or Feral hack DC’s account?!?! I know I didn’t! Can’t agree more. What we didn’t do in 2008-09 is coming back to haunt us now

I've spent the last twelve years hopping mad at the Fed (and the ECB and the BoJ). What they did -- and what they'll continue to try to do -- is destructive to everything, not least of which is capitalism.

ChalkRocker wrote: ↑Wed Mar 18, 2020 9:13 pm This isn't solely abt any personal impact, altho' I won't deny it gives me a perspective I wouldn't otherwise claim.

Their toxic ex-CEO and his cadre of sychophant ex-senior execs are gone. Retribution demanded and needed.

Will they rescind some windfall $$? More than they have, imo. See the auto industry, w/ it's multi-fiascos.

Should there be a hereditary effect for the nationally-critical industries that begat these thieves, and their qrtrly. profit-driven, stock-option comped approach to aircraft development and (inherently) aircraft safety?

Not in my view. Punish as needed and appropriate. Cleanse the cos. and the industries. The methods for this require, MORE THAN ANYTHING, foresight, strength of character, honesty, and selflessness. These traits exist, whether we believe it or not; but we need to believe it.

The industries? These cos., like it or not, ARE the industries. Flush 'em, feel vindicated, and then live with consequences (some sadly predictable, some afterthoughts, and some complete blindsides).

Use a scalpel as required (not a maul). It's a complicated (and Historically Critical) series of choices this nation is making, on this topic and a score of others, every fu*king day.

We're just so fatigued, I think we're making some expeditious, but very bad, choices.

All, imo, sir.

I dunno, CR. It all makes my head hurt -- and pisses me off. Forcing the companies to sell the stock to cover the cost of the bailouts makes the most sense in a tit-for-tat way, but de facto nationalization of the aeronautical and airline industries also makes me nauseated.

In need of a little socialism DC?

It's also culture

Feral wrote: ↑Wed Mar 18, 2020 10:23 pm

lulz @ people who thought we had anything even remotely similar to a "free market" before the crash.

This is good.

DCHawk1 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 18, 2020 10:53 pm

Feral wrote: ↑Wed Mar 18, 2020 10:23 pm

lulz @ people who thought we had anything even remotely similar to a "free market" before the crash.

The socialization of risk and privatization of profits has become an American tradition.

Sounds reasonably accurate:

#sorrynotsorry

I feel safer.

What’s next, a shadow foreign policy too?


...oh wait...

also, Chinese virus?

I hate to disagree with Susan Rice, but she's wrong, this should have been done weeks ago. That it wasn't, is unmitigated incompetence on the part of the Trump Administration. And it looks like we're going to pay for that incompetence, dearly.