Vivek ramaswamy

[DCHawk1]

PDub:

Clean up on aisle zsn...

[JKLivin]

Okay, I’ll bite: This matters why, exactly?
Yippee! More Chinese- and Indian-Americans in institutions of higher learning!! Has anyone seen the Scripps Spelling Bee over the last 20 years?

Maybe it’s விவேக்’s secret plan to turn America into the Spelling Bee

I don’t want to be that guy who quotes his own post. However, this is a very apropos finding. Here’s the US team which competed in the recently concluded International Chemistry Olympiad: Mingwen Dian (CT), Alice Liu (MO), Anurag Sodhi (MD), Phoenix Wu (TX), Sebastian Kumar (WA) and Brian Li (MA). Two Indian Americans, three Chinese Americans and one likely Chinese (maybe Vietnamese).

[mjl2]

Yippee! More Chinese- and Indian-Americans in institutions of higher learning!! Has anyone seen the Scripps Spelling Bee over the last 20 years?

Maybe it’s விவேக்’s secret plan to turn America into the Spelling Bee

I don’t want to be that guy who quotes his own post. However, this is a very apropos finding. Here’s the US team which competed in the recently concluded International Chemistry Olympiad: Mingwen Dian (CT), Alice Liu (MO), Anurag Sodhi (MD), Phoenix Wu (TX), Sebastian Kumar (WA) and Brian Li (MA). Two Indian Americans, three Chinese Americans and one likely Chinese (maybe Vietnamese).

Da fuq?

Is this a "you will not replace us" post?

[zsn]

Sorry, that was not my intent at all. Or eugenics or anything. I’m sure now, whatever my point was, was lost in the fray.

We’re running the risk of not expanding our talent base in STEM by not providing opportunities and role models for the largest possible population. I was merely trying to point out that the pool is shrinking rapidly, as opposed to expanding. Affirmative action in secondary and post-secondary education is one of the tools to help address this. I’m not in favor of AA in employment.

[TDub]

I dont think anyone knows what you're talking about.

Do you even know what you're talking about?


running the risk of expanding, pool is shrinking rapidly. huh?

[zsn]

Doh! See what havoc one missed “not” has (edited)!! Anyway, if you read the later sentences you’ll know what I’m talking about.

[Sparko]

The United States needs to seriously expand STEM education to all corners of the population. That is the diversity we need--opportunity everywhere, irrespective of wealth.

[DCHawk1]

Sorry, that was not my intent at all. Or eugenics or anything. I’m sure now, whatever my point was, was lost in the fray.

We’re running the risk of not expanding our talent base in STEM by not providing opportunities and role models for the largest possible population. I was merely trying to point out that the pool is shrinking rapidly, as opposed to expanding. Affirmative action in secondary and post-secondary education is one of the tools to help address this. I’m not in favor of AA in employment.

What you're saying, then, is "you will not replace us!"

[DCHawk1]

Raise your hand if you didn't see this coming:

[twocoach]

Sorry, that was not my intent at all. Or eugenics or anything. I’m sure now, whatever my point was, was lost in the fray.

We’re running the risk of not expanding our talent base in STEM by not providing opportunities and role models for the largest possible population. I was merely trying to point out that the pool is shrinking rapidly, as opposed to expanding. Affirmative action in secondary and post-secondary education is one of the tools to help address this. I’m not in favor of AA in employment.

We have a far-too-large portion of the white population teaching their children that education is bad and should not be trusted while we have the vast majority of Chinese and Indian Americans rightly teaching their children that education is their best path to success. It's not about "expanding our talent base". We have more potential for talent than any nation in the world. We just have too many people who are not taking advantage of the opportunities provided to them. Yes, we also need to continue to financially support education, particularly in STEM but when so many people are out here championing the "ignorance is to be celebrated" movement then it looks like we're going the wrong direction.

I'd love to see the numbers on the percentage of Chinese and Indian Americans who got into college thanks only to Affirmative Action that otherwise would not have been able to attend. I doubt it is remotely comparable to the rates amongst African Americans who needed Affirmative Action to get into school. You think any of those kids in the Scripps Spelling Bee is in need of Affirmative Action to get into college?!?

[zsn]

You think any of those kids in the Scripps Spelling Bee is in need of Affirmative Action to get into college?!?

I’m saying exactly the opposite. Regardless of the underlying reason (many theories are proposed) the Spelling Bee, Chemistry Olympiad etc are dominated by Asian Americans (Indian, Chinese and other East-/ South Asian origin kids). If it’s purely based on grades and accomplishments similar outcomes would result in most institutions of higher education (legacy admissions notwithstanding).

I was facetiously insinuating that maybe that’s Vivek’s not-so-secret intention, to have Indian Americans dominate everything

[twocoach]

You think any of those kids in the Scripps Spelling Bee is in need of Affirmative Action to get into college?!?

I’m saying exactly the opposite. Regardless of the underlying reason (many theories are proposed) the Spelling Bee, Chemistry Olympiad etc are dominated by Asian Americans (Indian, Chinese and other East-/ South Asian origin kids). If it’s purely based on grades and accomplishments similar outcomes would result in most institutions of higher education (legacy admissions notwithstanding).

I was facetiously insinuating that maybe that’s Vivek’s not-so-secret intention, to have Indian Americans dominate everything

Who knows, 100 years from now white people might need Affirmative Action to help boost their college attendance numbers.

[JKLivin]

You think any of those kids in the Scripps Spelling Bee is in need of Affirmative Action to get into college?!?

I’m saying exactly the opposite. Regardless of the underlying reason (many theories are proposed) the Spelling Bee, Chemistry Olympiad etc are dominated by Asian Americans (Indian, Chinese and other East-/ South Asian origin kids). If it’s purely based on grades and accomplishments similar outcomes would result in most institutions of higher education (legacy admissions notwithstanding).

I was facetiously insinuating that maybe that’s Vivek’s not-so-secret intention, to have Indian Americans dominate everything

Who knows, 100 years from now white people might need Affirmative Action to help boost their college attendance numbers.

I think Vivek’s contention is that life should be primarily merit-based. I think the world would be much better that way.

[twocoach]

I’m saying exactly the opposite. Regardless of the underlying reason (many theories are proposed) the Spelling Bee, Chemistry Olympiad etc are dominated by Asian Americans (Indian, Chinese and other East-/ South Asian origin kids). If it’s purely based on grades and accomplishments similar outcomes would result in most institutions of higher education (legacy admissions notwithstanding).

I was facetiously insinuating that maybe that’s Vivek’s not-so-secret intention, to have Indian Americans dominate everything

Who knows, 100 years from now white people might need Affirmative Action to help boost their college attendance numbers.

I think Vivek’s contention is that life should be primarily merit-based. I think the world would be much better that way.

I don't necessarily disagree. I have been fine with Affirmative Action going away for a while now. It will just be interesting to see how much "merit-based" ability the portion of our nation currently vilifying teachers and education have in another generation or two.

[JKLivin]

Who knows, 100 years from now white people might need Affirmative Action to help boost their college attendance numbers.

I think Vivek’s contention is that life should be primarily merit-based. I think the world would be much better that way.

I don't necessarily disagree. I have been fine with Affirmative Action going away for a while now. It will just be interesting to see how much "merit-based" ability the portion of our nation currently vilifying teachers and education have in another generation or two.

If schools refocused on education and de-emphasized social indoctrination, the vilification would evaporate in no time. Kids might get smarter, too.

[jfish26]

I don't think anyone's against a purely merit-based utopia.

I think the devil of course is in the details - namely that we're not, in my opinion, remotely close to a place where opportunity is equal such that candidates are competing on a level playing field.

Clearly no one has found a good answer for what to do here, because this is one area where each individual game is zero sum; give preference to Profile X, and you're obviously disadvantaging Profiles Y and Z.

I can say I'd be significantly more aligned with the right's efforts to end Affirmative Action-type programs if the right was ALSO more aligned with progressive policies designed to actually help lower- and lower-middle-class kids and families (like free, universal pre-K, etc.).

[Shirley]

I don't think anyone's against a purely merit-based utopia.

I think the devil of course is in the details - namely that we're not, in my opinion, remotely close to a place where opportunity is equal such that candidates are competing on a level playing field.

Clearly no one has found a good answer for what to do here, because this is one area where each individual game is zero sum; give preference to Profile X, and you're obviously disadvantaging Profiles Y and Z.

I can say I'd be significantly more aligned with the right's efforts to end Affirmative Action-type programs if the right was ALSO more aligned with progressive policies designed to actually help lower- and lower-middle-class kids and families (like free, universal pre-K, etc.).

^^^

[twocoach]

I think Vivek’s contention is that life should be primarily merit-based. I think the world would be much better that way.

I don't necessarily disagree. I have been fine with Affirmative Action going away for a while now. It will just be interesting to see how much "merit-based" ability the portion of our nation currently vilifying teachers and education have in another generation or two.

If schools refocused on education and de-emphasized social indoctrination, the vilification would evaporate in no time. Kids might get smarter, too.

People who complain about everything seem to always find something to complain about. Sorry, but this "de-emphasized social indoctrination" shtick is obscenely overstated.

[twocoach]

I don't think anyone's against a purely merit-based utopia.

I think the devil of course is in the details - namely that we're not, in my opinion, remotely close to a place where opportunity is equal such that candidates are competing on a level playing field.

Clearly no one has found a good answer for what to do here, because this is one area where each individual game is zero sum; give preference to Profile X, and you're obviously disadvantaging Profiles Y and Z.

I can say I'd be significantly more aligned with the right's efforts to end Affirmative Action-type programs if the right was ALSO more aligned with progressive policies designed to actually help lower- and lower-middle-class kids and families (like free, universal pre-K, etc.).

Agreed. It's kinda hard to compete in a race when one kid only has to run a 50 meter dash while others have to run 100 meters. It would be a lot easier to take the "it's all about the kids" and "let's focus on education" people seriously if they invested in better schools for the communities around them.

[JKLivin]

I don't necessarily disagree. I have been fine with Affirmative Action going away for a while now. It will just be interesting to see how much "merit-based" ability the portion of our nation currently vilifying teachers and education have in another generation or two.

If schools refocused on education and de-emphasized social indoctrination, the vilification would evaporate in no time. Kids might get smarter, too.

People who complain about everything seem to always find something to complain about. Sorry, but this "de-emphasized social indoctrination" shtick is obscenely overstated.

I have had three kids go through the public schools. I don't know how many you have had, but I found the undermining of the values taught at home to be alarming and disgraceful, as was the lack of time and attention to important matters like reading, spelling, math, and writing. My fourth child will not be in public school, even if I have to home school her myself.