Kansas Crimson

zsn wrote: ↑Sun Sep 03, 2023 3:14 pm

zsn wrote: ↑Fri Sep 01, 2023 3:36 pm

randylahey wrote: ↑Fri Sep 01, 2023 2:26 pm

Okay, I’ll bite: This matters why, exactly?
Yippee! More Chinese- and Indian-Americans in institutions of higher learning!! Has anyone seen the Scripps Spelling Bee over the last 20 years?

Maybe it’s விவேக்’s secret plan to turn America into the Spelling Bee

I don’t want to be that guy who quotes his own post. However, this is a very apropos finding. Here’s the US team which competed in the recently concluded International Chemistry Olympiad: Mingwen Dian (CT), Alice Liu (MO), Anurag Sodhi (MD), Phoenix Wu (TX), Sebastian Kumar (WA) and Brian Li (MA). Two Indian Americans, three Chinese Americans and one likely Chinese (maybe Vietnamese).

zsn wrote: ↑Sun Sep 03, 2023 3:14 pm

zsn wrote: ↑Fri Sep 01, 2023 3:36 pm

randylahey wrote: ↑Fri Sep 01, 2023 2:26 pm

Yippee! More Chinese- and Indian-Americans in institutions of higher learning!! Has anyone seen the Scripps Spelling Bee over the last 20 years?

Maybe it’s விவேக்’s secret plan to turn America into the Spelling Bee

I don’t want to be that guy who quotes his own post. However, this is a very apropos finding. Here’s the US team which competed in the recently concluded International Chemistry Olympiad: Mingwen Dian (CT), Alice Liu (MO), Anurag Sodhi (MD), Phoenix Wu (TX), Sebastian Kumar (WA) and Brian Li (MA). Two Indian Americans, three Chinese Americans and one likely Chinese (maybe Vietnamese).

zsn wrote: ↑Mon Sep 04, 2023 10:10 am Sorry, that was not my intent at all. Or eugenics or anything. I’m sure now, whatever my point was, was lost in the fray.

We’re running the risk of not expanding our talent base in STEM by not providing opportunities and role models for the largest possible population. I was merely trying to point out that the pool is shrinking rapidly, as opposed to expanding. Affirmative action in secondary and post-secondary education is one of the tools to help address this. I’m not in favor of AA in employment.

zsn wrote: ↑Mon Sep 04, 2023 10:10 am Sorry, that was not my intent at all. Or eugenics or anything. I’m sure now, whatever my point was, was lost in the fray.

We’re running the risk of not expanding our talent base in STEM by not providing opportunities and role models for the largest possible population. I was merely trying to point out that the pool is shrinking rapidly, as opposed to expanding. Affirmative action in secondary and post-secondary education is one of the tools to help address this. I’m not in favor of AA in employment.

twocoach wrote: ↑Mon Sep 04, 2023 3:39 pm You think any of those kids in the Scripps Spelling Bee is in need of Affirmative Action to get into college?!?

zsn wrote: ↑Mon Sep 04, 2023 4:52 pm

twocoach wrote: ↑Mon Sep 04, 2023 3:39 pm You think any of those kids in the Scripps Spelling Bee is in need of Affirmative Action to get into college?!?

I’m saying exactly the opposite. Regardless of the underlying reason (many theories are proposed) the Spelling Bee, Chemistry Olympiad etc are dominated by Asian Americans (Indian, Chinese and other East-/ South Asian origin kids). If it’s purely based on grades and accomplishments similar outcomes would result in most institutions of higher education (legacy admissions notwithstanding).

I was facetiously insinuating that maybe that’s Vivek’s not-so-secret intention, to have Indian Americans dominate everything

twocoach wrote: ↑Mon Sep 04, 2023 5:13 pm

zsn wrote: ↑Mon Sep 04, 2023 4:52 pm

twocoach wrote: ↑Mon Sep 04, 2023 3:39 pm You think any of those kids in the Scripps Spelling Bee is in need of Affirmative Action to get into college?!?

I’m saying exactly the opposite. Regardless of the underlying reason (many theories are proposed) the Spelling Bee, Chemistry Olympiad etc are dominated by Asian Americans (Indian, Chinese and other East-/ South Asian origin kids). If it’s purely based on grades and accomplishments similar outcomes would result in most institutions of higher education (legacy admissions notwithstanding).

I was facetiously insinuating that maybe that’s Vivek’s not-so-secret intention, to have Indian Americans dominate everything

Who knows, 100 years from now white people might need Affirmative Action to help boost their college attendance numbers.

JKLivin wrote: ↑Mon Sep 04, 2023 6:59 pm

twocoach wrote: ↑Mon Sep 04, 2023 5:13 pm

zsn wrote: ↑Mon Sep 04, 2023 4:52 pm

I’m saying exactly the opposite. Regardless of the underlying reason (many theories are proposed) the Spelling Bee, Chemistry Olympiad etc are dominated by Asian Americans (Indian, Chinese and other East-/ South Asian origin kids). If it’s purely based on grades and accomplishments similar outcomes would result in most institutions of higher education (legacy admissions notwithstanding).

I was facetiously insinuating that maybe that’s Vivek’s not-so-secret intention, to have Indian Americans dominate everything

Who knows, 100 years from now white people might need Affirmative Action to help boost their college attendance numbers.

I think Vivek’s contention is that life should be primarily merit-based. I think the world would be much better that way.

twocoach wrote: ↑Mon Sep 04, 2023 8:32 pm

JKLivin wrote: ↑Mon Sep 04, 2023 6:59 pm

twocoach wrote: ↑Mon Sep 04, 2023 5:13 pm
Who knows, 100 years from now white people might need Affirmative Action to help boost their college attendance numbers.

I think Vivek’s contention is that life should be primarily merit-based. I think the world would be much better that way.

I don't necessarily disagree. I have been fine with Affirmative Action going away for a while now. It will just be interesting to see how much "merit-based" ability the portion of our nation currently vilifying teachers and education have in another generation or two.

jfish26 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 04, 2023 8:51 pm I don't think anyone's against a purely merit-based utopia.

I think the devil of course is in the details - namely that we're not, in my opinion, remotely close to a place where opportunity is equal such that candidates are competing on a level playing field.

Clearly no one has found a good answer for what to do here, because this is one area where each individual game is zero sum; give preference to Profile X, and you're obviously disadvantaging Profiles Y and Z.

I can say I'd be significantly more aligned with the right's efforts to end Affirmative Action-type programs if the right was ALSO more aligned with progressive policies designed to actually help lower- and lower-middle-class kids and families (like free, universal pre-K, etc.).

JKLivin wrote: ↑Mon Sep 04, 2023 8:43 pm

twocoach wrote: ↑Mon Sep 04, 2023 8:32 pm

JKLivin wrote: ↑Mon Sep 04, 2023 6:59 pm

I think Vivek’s contention is that life should be primarily merit-based. I think the world would be much better that way.

I don't necessarily disagree. I have been fine with Affirmative Action going away for a while now. It will just be interesting to see how much "merit-based" ability the portion of our nation currently vilifying teachers and education have in another generation or two.

If schools refocused on education and de-emphasized social indoctrination, the vilification would evaporate in no time. Kids might get smarter, too.

jfish26 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 04, 2023 8:51 pm I don't think anyone's against a purely merit-based utopia.

I think the devil of course is in the details - namely that we're not, in my opinion, remotely close to a place where opportunity is equal such that candidates are competing on a level playing field.

Clearly no one has found a good answer for what to do here, because this is one area where each individual game is zero sum; give preference to Profile X, and you're obviously disadvantaging Profiles Y and Z.

I can say I'd be significantly more aligned with the right's efforts to end Affirmative Action-type programs if the right was ALSO more aligned with progressive policies designed to actually help lower- and lower-middle-class kids and families (like free, universal pre-K, etc.).

twocoach wrote: ↑Tue Sep 05, 2023 8:25 am

JKLivin wrote: ↑Mon Sep 04, 2023 8:43 pm

twocoach wrote: ↑Mon Sep 04, 2023 8:32 pm
I don't necessarily disagree. I have been fine with Affirmative Action going away for a while now. It will just be interesting to see how much "merit-based" ability the portion of our nation currently vilifying teachers and education have in another generation or two.

If schools refocused on education and de-emphasized social indoctrination, the vilification would evaporate in no time. Kids might get smarter, too.

People who complain about everything seem to always find something to complain about. Sorry, but this "de-emphasized social indoctrination" shtick is obscenely overstated.