Kansas Crimson

I will say tho if 2020 doesn't happen, and dotson gets an ncaa tourney, and puts up big numbers leading us on a potential ran at a natty..... the argument heats up for where he ranks among selfs pgs.

But it's really to hard put a good 2 year player over an all American 4 year guy

And if Tyshawn Taylor is half a step earlier on a steal or Farokmanesh misses that 3, and Sherron makes another Final Four/wins another title, there isn't even close to an argument.

I think people are forgetting how good Sherron was at getting down the court.
Self would absolutely just let him go and attack from inbound to the bucket.

Yea, he showed up out of shape his senior year, and I think had he a better work ethic he could have done better at Kansas and made the NBA, but despite that, he was a 1st team AA.

Sherron was a stud

Cascadia is trying like the devil to remember his password right now

One minor detail but I think worth mentioning regarding Sherron v Dotson ( because I do think they both were excellent rim attackers ) is the rule change that happened after Sherron left.

The restricted arc prevented spam defenses ( especially for lesser teams ) from just sliding their big into a charge position right before the guard got to the basket.

if only Dot woulda had a full season/post-season…how different things might look

2-4 are difficult for me to parse. they were all so good in their own respects

i sat for a while racking my brain, telling myself that surely there’s someone illy missed…there’s no way Tharpe is top 10

BiggDick wrote: ↑Mon Oct 28, 2024 8:59 pm
And maybe Garrett a little higher, cuz 1. he always played aggressive and 2. I think he deserves a bit of the “if he had better players around him” benefit of the doubt we afford Dajuan.

We don't do that for DH.

He's played with awesome players during his time at KU. CB JW Och Gradey Furphy McCullar Hunter Dmac. Thats why he has a national championship.

Just stop.


You've bumped up several guys. To bump someone up, you've got to move someone down.

Not sure how you can have the bottom 2 anybody else than MG and Tharpe.

KUTradition wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2024 7:52 am
i sat for a while racking my brain, telling myself that surely there’s someone illy missed…there’s no way Tharpe is top 10

Haha I did too.

You can skew it by adding guys like Chalmers or Malik in there. But I tried to narrow it to guys who played primarily PG in their main seasons of contribution. Obviously EJ played some 2 in his earlier years. MG played some 4. But I think it's a fairly complete list.


That list shows that Self likes multi year guys driving his ship. Dotson is really the only young guy on the list. Everyone else played all 4 years or until they were kicked off (tharpe iirc).

KUTradition wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2024 7:52 am if only Dot woulda had a full season/post-season…how different things might look

2-4 are difficult for me to parse. they were all so good in their own respects

i sat for a while racking my brain, telling myself that surely there’s someone illy missed…there’s no way Tharpe is top 10

Well, technically, Dotson played 2 years at KU under Bill Self -- so did Aaron Miles -- so if you added Aaron to this list, you could bump Tharpe outta here.

Miles goes in the Roy era guards for me but would get credit for his accomplishments during his 2 seasons under Bill.

Basically Self recruits is what I was going for.

Totally.
I was just trying to bump Tharpe outta there.

pdub wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2024 8:27 am Totally.
I was just trying to bump Tharpe outta there.

Understandably so.

But it all ties back into why I am not sure getting those top 10 recruit one and done PGs would work (as well) for Self (and probably why we dont get more of them). He's controlling. He does not just let players go out there and wing it.

....but on the flip side. Wings and Bigs love playing with experienced PGs who can get the team good shots and run offense. Which is why we've done well recruiting Wings and Bigs.

pdub wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2024 8:21 am

KUTradition wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2024 7:52 am if only Dot woulda had a full season/post-season…how different things might look

2-4 are difficult for me to parse. they were all so good in their own respects

i sat for a while racking my brain, telling myself that surely there’s someone illy missed…there’s no way Tharpe is top 10

Well, technically, Dotson played 2 years at KU under Bill Self -- so did Aaron Miles -- so if you added Aaron to this list, you could bump Tharpe outta here.

yeah, i should’ve said “full second season/postseason”

for the sake of this discussion, i’d have zero issues putting Miles on the list (even if just to remove Tharpe)

DeletedUser wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2024 8:31 am But it all ties back into why I am not sure getting those top 10 recruit one and done PGs would work (as well) for Self (and probably why we dont get more of them). He's controlling. He does not just let players go out there and wing it.

....but on the flip side. Wings and Bigs love playing with experienced PGs who can get the team good shots and run offense. Which is why we've done well recruiting Wings and Bigs.

maybe this is a semantic thing, but i don’t see Self as controlling as much as i see him having certain, high expectations for that position

KUTradition wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2024 8:37 am

DeletedUser wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2024 8:31 am But it all ties back into why I am not sure getting those top 10 recruit one and done PGs would work (as well) for Self (and probably why we dont get more of them). He's controlling. He does not just let players go out there and wing it.

....but on the flip side. Wings and Bigs love playing with experienced PGs who can get the team good shots and run offense. Which is why we've done well recruiting Wings and Bigs.

maybe this is a semantic thing, but i don’t see Self as controlling as much as i see him having certain, high expectations for that position

Yes, absolutely. You've got to know what you are doing as an individual, as well as what "we" are doing as a team, to be a PG in his system.

DeletedUser wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2024 8:15 am

BiggDick wrote: ↑Mon Oct 28, 2024 8:59 pm
And maybe Garrett a little higher, cuz 1. he always played aggressive and 2. I think he deserves a bit of the “if he had better players around him” benefit of the doubt we afford Dajuan.

We don't do that for DH.

He's played with awesome players during his time at KU. CB JW Och Gradey Furphy McCullar Hunter Dmac. Thats why he has a national championship.

It's fun how illy says we don't do that for DH, then goes on to do precisely that for DH.

You've bumped up several guys. To bump someone up, you've got to move someone down.

Not sure how you can have the bottom 2 anybody else than MG and Tharpe.

Yea, I know. Elijah's down there too.

And, without getting into specific order, I think we can all at least agree Dajuan is definitely closer to the MG/Elijah/Tharpe end of this list, than the...um, other end.

The big difference tho is, imagine after a year of MG or Elijah or Tharpe at the lead, if coach came out and said, "actually my vision for the program is let this guy start and play a big role for one more year...two more years...three more years...yea, that's what we need, 4 straight years!"

Of course, I say all this to jinx myself, to cook up what I hope will be a big salty plate of crauw, which I'll gladly eat, and you'll gladly chase me around for years mocking me about how I ever suggested our 6th year senior PG who starts for 4 straight years was "low ceiling" after he leads us to the promised land and gets drafted first round by the Denver Nuggets.

pdub wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2024 6:02 am Sherron was a better threat from 3.
Dotson was fast AF but Sherron was no slouch in that department.

I’ll go with the 2 time All American and National Champion. I know, crazy right?

And you can’t move up RussRob-there isn’t any one he can jump on illys list.

Yes, that includes DH.

I've said it before, but admittedly, I hold a pretty big grudge against Sherron for lacking the discipline to not show up fat.

and maybe it's fanboy sentiments and qualitative eye test, but, I value RR more than Dajuan just cuz I remember RR competing hard and playing fearless and aggressive, and never got that overwhelmed "oh shit I totally regret having the moms tell the older neighborhood kids they gotta let me play too" look that Dajuan is prone to.

BiggDick wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2024 9:32 am and maybe it's fanboy sentiments and qualitative eye test, but, I value RR more than Dajuan just cuz I remember RR competing hard and playing fearless and aggressive, and never got that overwhelmed "oh shit I totally regret having the moms tell the older neighborhood kids they gotta let me play too" look that Dajuan is prone to.

Fail.

This is why you devalue Perry Ellis - because he doesn't meet your 'body language' expectations.

didn’t RussRob nearly quit the program and leave?